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On 5/9/2016 7:45 AM, scott wrote:
> It's not irrelevant if you actually plan to make anything work. All
> digital electronics (apart from in some basic simulator) is analog
> anyway :-) The book I've seen thrown about in many places is this one:
>
> http://artofelectronics.net/the-book/table-of-contents/
>
If the content lives up to the TOC. That looks like an excellent book.
If Andrew has not already done it. It would be good to breadboard the
circuits as you do them.
> Chapter 10 is "digital electronics", but many of the preceding chapters
> are worth understanding before you start to make anything "digital". In
> the end, a digital "gate" is actually just transistors, so if you
> understand how transistors work you'll understand why a gate behaves the
> way it does.
A very good point. Most people think that a digital transistor is
different from a transistor for an amplifier.
--
Regards
Stephen
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On 09/05/2016 07:45 AM, scott wrote:
> On 06/05/2016 20:35, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
>> Question: Are there any books out there that actually *do* that?
>>
>> I mean, what little I know about digital logic is gleaned from
>> children's books and Wikipedia. I've never seen a *book* that actually
>> *explains* this stuff. (Unless it's an electronics book, in which case
>> it talks about impedance and capacitance and other such irrelevant
>> details.)
>
> It's not irrelevant if you actually plan to make anything work. All
> digital electronics (apart from in some basic simulator) is analog
> anyway :-)
Yeah, but it helps to understand the theory before throwing all the
obfuscating real-world complexities into the mix.
> The book I've seen thrown about in many places is this one:
>
> http://artofelectronics.net/the-book/table-of-contents/
>
> Chapter 10 is "digital electronics", but many of the preceding chapters
> are worth understanding before you start to make anything "digital".
OK, I'll take a look.
> In
> the end, a digital "gate" is actually just transistors, so if you
> understand how transistors work you'll understand why a gate behaves the
> way it does.
Or, to put it more correctly, an arrangement of transistors is an
imperfect implementation of how a logic gate is supposed to behave.
Presumably if you were to build a gate out of water valves or lego
bricks, it would have a different set of imperfections.
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On 05/09/2016 10:21 AM, Orchid Win7 v1 a dit:
> Presumably if you were to build a gate out of water valves
http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/graphics/76-07-18.png
--
http://weblog.mixart-myrys.org/?post/2016/03/De-la-temporalisation
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>>> I mean, what little I know about digital logic is gleaned from
>>> children's books and Wikipedia. I've never seen a *book* that actually
>>> *explains* this stuff. (Unless it's an electronics book, in which case
>>> it talks about impedance and capacitance and other such irrelevant
>>> details.)
>>
>> It's not irrelevant if you actually plan to make anything work. All
>> digital electronics (apart from in some basic simulator) is analog
>> anyway :-)
>
> Yeah, but it helps to understand the theory before throwing all the
> obfuscating real-world complexities into the mix.
My electronics course at university, and that book I linked to, both
take the approach of teaching the "real-world" stuff first. In fact, my
university electronics course started with explaining what
"conductivity" meant in terms of electrons. I guess you could ignore all
that and assume all logic gates are ideal, but typically that's not
going to be very useful for anything.
>> In
>> the end, a digital "gate" is actually just transistors, so if you
>> understand how transistors work you'll understand why a gate behaves the
>> way it does.
>
> Or, to put it more correctly, an arrangement of transistors is an
> imperfect implementation of how a logic gate is supposed to behave.
>
> Presumably if you were to build a gate out of water valves or lego
> bricks, it would have a different set of imperfections.
Of course, but for every gate designed and built using lego or water,
there are probably billions done in silicon, so it's a bit more useful
to learn about that first. Especially if you ever plan on building any
circuit (didn't you say you tried a simple circuit before and it failed?).
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On 5/9/2016 9:21 AM, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
>
> Yeah, but it helps to understand the theory before throwing all the
> obfuscating real-world complexities into the mix.
>
Remember we are thinking Quantum here which is a real-world complexity.
>
>> In
>> the end, a digital "gate" is actually just transistors, so if you
>> understand how transistors work you'll understand why a gate behaves the
>> way it does.
>
> Or, to put it more correctly, an arrangement of transistors is an
> imperfect implementation of how a logic gate is supposed to behave.
>
> Presumably if you were to build a gate out of water valves or lego
> bricks, it would have a different set of imperfections.
If you can get Quantum effects from Lego. The world is your mollusc. :-P
You need to get out of the mindset of:
"One is one and all alone and ever more shall be so."
Quantum is playing the cracks between the keys of the piano.
--
Regards
Stephen
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On 09/05/16 10:22, Stephen wrote:
>
> Quantum is playing the cracks between the keys of the piano.
>
Now _that_ is a seriously good mental image.
John
--
Protect the Earth
It was not given to you by your parents
You hold it in trust for your children
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On 5/9/2016 10:52 AM, Doctor John wrote:
> On 09/05/16 10:22, Stephen wrote:
>>
>> Quantum is playing the cracks between the keys of the piano.
>>
>
> Now _that_ is a seriously good mental image.
>
> John
>
Thanks, but I got it from James Blish's 1954 short story "Beep"
I'm sure there is a line that says physics is physics and you can't play
the cracks of the piano
--
Regards
Stephen
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On 09/05/2016 09:54 AM, scott wrote:
>>> It's not irrelevant if you actually plan to make anything work. All
>>> digital electronics (apart from in some basic simulator) is analog
>>> anyway :-)
>>
>> Yeah, but it helps to understand the theory before throwing all the
>> obfuscating real-world complexities into the mix.
>
> My electronics course at university, and that book I linked to, both
> take the approach of teaching the "real-world" stuff first. In fact, my
> university electronics course started with explaining what
> "conductivity" meant in terms of electrons. I guess you could ignore all
> that and assume all logic gates are ideal, but typically that's not
> going to be very useful for anything.
I guess it depends on what your goal is. If your goal is "design
circuitry that can be manufactured in the real world and sold to people
at a profit", there's an awful lot of real-world stuff that's quite
important. If your goal is "I wonder how my PC works", then... not so much.
>> Presumably if you were to build a gate out of water valves or lego
>> bricks, it would have a different set of imperfections.
>
> Of course, but for every gate designed and built using lego or water,
> there are probably billions done in silicon, so it's a bit more useful
> to learn about that first. Especially if you ever plan on building any
> circuit (didn't you say you tried a simple circuit before and it failed?).
Tangentially:
https://hackaday.com/2016/04/30/megaprocessor-is-a-macro-microprocessor/
Apparently the LEDs consume most of the power. And where I was thinking
that LEDs are extremely low-power...
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On 09/05/16 11:12, Stephen wrote:
>
> Thanks, but I got it from James Blish's 1954 short story "Beep"
> I'm sure there is a line that says physics is physics and you can't play
> the cracks of the piano
>
For no apparent reason, I was immediately reminded of Leonard Cohen's
'Anthem'.
There is a crack, a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in.
John
--
Protect the Earth
It was not given to you by your parents
You hold it in trust for your children
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On 9-5-2016 13:12, Doctor John wrote:
> On 09/05/16 11:12, Stephen wrote:
>>
>> Thanks, but I got it from James Blish's 1954 short story "Beep"
>> I'm sure there is a line that says physics is physics and you can't play
>> the cracks of the piano
>>
>
> For no apparent reason, I was immediately reminded of Leonard Cohen's
> 'Anthem'.
>
> There is a crack, a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in.
>
Somehow, I think this would be an interesting Challenge for the TC-RTC.
--
Thomas
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