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From: Stephen
Subject: Re: Reflex
Date: 2 Feb 2016 08:39:08
Message: <56b0b17c$1@news.povray.org>
On 2/2/2016 1:19 PM, Francois Labreque wrote:
>  >> Orchid Win7 v1: Nikon
>> Scott: Canon
>
> Begun, the camera wars have.
>

If it is not a pinhole it is not true to the spirit and is a softboy's 
cheat. :)


-- 

Regards
     Stephen


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From: Stephen
Subject: Re: Reflex
Date: 2 Feb 2016 08:55:13
Message: <56b0b541$1@news.povray.org>
On 2/2/2016 2:46 AM, Mike Horvath wrote:
>
> Careful. That sounds kind of like socialism. Who are you to infringe
> upon the camera makers' right to differentiate.


Tee Hee
A dope smoking red under the bed. ;)

-- 

Regards
     Stephen


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From: clipka
Subject: Re: Pictures or it didn't happen
Date: 2 Feb 2016 09:22:45
Message: <56b0bbb5$1@news.povray.org>
Am 02.02.2016 um 14:15 schrieb Francois Labreque:

>> On 1-2-2016 23:42, Mike Horvath wrote:
>>> On 2/1/2016 4:40 PM, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
>>>> On 01/02/2016 09:37 PM, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
>>>>> Oh, right. I just wrote 20 pages about a camera, and didn't post any
>>>>> pictures...
>>>>
>>>> Take one ordinary box of chocolates. Shoot sideways with the widest
>>>> aperture the lens can manage. PROFIT!
>>>
>>>
>>> Oh, and hashish filled chocolates I presume.
>>
>> I think he is fooling us. Those are POV-Ray renders, not photographs.
>>
> It's a twist on the RSOCP.  The RSs are embedded in the CP.

Well, the chocolates may contain VSOP...


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From: clipka
Subject: Re: Reflex
Date: 2 Feb 2016 09:24:25
Message: <56b0bc19$1@news.povray.org>
Am 02.02.2016 um 14:39 schrieb Stephen:
> On 2/2/2016 1:19 PM, Francois Labreque wrote:
>>  >> Orchid Win7 v1: Nikon
>>> Scott: Canon
>>
>> Begun, the camera wars have.
>>
> 
> If it is not a pinhole it is not true to the spirit and is a softboy's
> cheat. :)

Is that why smartphones have such small lenses? ;)


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From: Stephen
Subject: Re: Reflex
Date: 2 Feb 2016 09:56:16
Message: <56b0c390$1@news.povray.org>
On 2/2/2016 2:24 PM, clipka wrote:
> Am 02.02.2016 um 14:39 schrieb Stephen:
>> On 2/2/2016 1:19 PM, Francois Labreque wrote:
>>>   >> Orchid Win7 v1: Nikon
>>>> Scott: Canon
>>>
>>> Begun, the camera wars have.
>>>
>>
>> If it is not a pinhole it is not true to the spirit and is a softboy's
>> cheat. :)
>
> Is that why smartphones have such small lenses? ;)
>

I don't know. Why do smartphones have such small lenses?

;-)

-- 

Regards
     Stephen


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From: Orchid Win7 v1
Subject: Re: Pictures or it didn't happen
Date: 2 Feb 2016 13:17:19
Message: <56b0f2af$1@news.povray.org>
On 02/02/2016 08:32 AM, scott wrote:
>> So I went back and tried to redo the shot at ISO 100. Aaaand captured a
>> whole load of camera shake, and not much else.
>>
>> I see there's a 40mm f/1.8 lens that's cheap...
>>
>> OH GOD, IT HAS STARTED! O_O
>
> :-)
>
> Get a tripod, invaluable for shots like this.

I've already got a tripod. It's not especially good though. And 
regardless, you can't use a tripod to hold the camera half an inch away 
from a horizontal surface, while facing at a jaunty angle. :-P


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From: Orchid Win7 v1
Subject: Re: Reflex
Date: 2 Feb 2016 13:18:42
Message: <56b0f302$1@news.povray.org>
On 02/02/2016 01:19 PM, Francois Labreque wrote:
>  >> Orchid Win7 v1: Nikon
>> Scott: Canon
>
> Begun, the camera wars have.

Yeah, everybody I speak to seems to think that Canon is the only 
acceptable brand.

I have no idea why.


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From: Stephen
Subject: Re: Pictures or it didn't happen
Date: 2 Feb 2016 13:32:21
Message: <56b0f635$1@news.povray.org>
On 2/2/2016 6:17 PM, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
> On 02/02/2016 08:32 AM, scott wrote:
>>> So I went back and tried to redo the shot at ISO 100. Aaaand captured a
>>> whole load of camera shake, and not much else.
>>>
>>> I see there's a 40mm f/1.8 lens that's cheap...
>>>
>>> OH GOD, IT HAS STARTED! O_O
>>
>> :-)
>>
>> Get a tripod, invaluable for shots like this.
>
> I've already got a tripod. It's not especially good though. And
> regardless, you can't use a tripod to hold the camera half an inch away
> from a horizontal surface, while facing at a jaunty angle. :-P

Think about a monopod.
They are more stable for handhelds than not having one.

-- 

Regards
     Stephen


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From: Zeger Knaepen
Subject: Re: Reflex
Date: 2 Feb 2016 18:27:59
Message: <56b13b7f@news.povray.org>
On 2/02/2016 19:18, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
> On 02/02/2016 01:19 PM, Francois Labreque wrote:
>>  >> Orchid Win7 v1: Nikon
>>> Scott: Canon
>>
>> Begun, the camera wars have.
>
> Yeah, everybody I speak to seems to think that Canon is the only
> acceptable brand.
>
> I have no idea why.

Simple: they used to be, a long time ago, until around 2008. Then they 
completely stalled in terms of image quality, whereas Nikon, Pentax, 
Sony and Sigma (to my knowledge all DSLR brands that mainly use Sony 
sensors) kept improving to the point where today you can buy a Nikon 
DSLR (D5200 for example, 699Euro with an 18-140mm lens) that has in 
every way (light sensitivity, color accuracy, tonal accuracy, dynamic 
range) at least twice the image quality of a more expensive Canon (EOS
700D, 799Euro with an 18-135mm lens)

(This is not an opinion, by the way, I'm talking about measurable facts, 
and I know the new 750/760D has a much better sensor, but it still lags 
behind in terms of dynamic range by a factor of around 2 stops)

Most people that think of themselves as capable of giving advice about 
cameras, because of experience, have been using DSLR's for quite some 
time now, since before 2008. So from their perspective Canon is indeed 
better than Nikon (most people forget about Pentax and Sigma, and Sony 
doesn't really make DSLRs anymore, unless you call their SLT cameras 
real DSLRs, which I don't since it lacks the main component (and reason 
of invention) of a SLR: an optical viewfinder), either because they 
don't know Canon now has the lowest image quality of all DSLRs (again: 
not an opinion, but a measurable fact), or because they have a 
collection of lenses which makes it more interesting for them to stay 
with Canon (irrelevant really if they're giving advice to someone else, 
but people aren't always rational), or because they just don't know any 
better.

Now, in terms of ergonomics and ease of use, that is a matter of 
personal opinion, but I believe most people that have ever used a Pentax 
would agree: nothing beats Pentax :)
Nikon has some weird default settings (like a fixed ISO.. when I use 
aperture priority, that means I only want to select the aperture, so the 
default ISO setting should be automatic, in my opinion), and Canon has 
some weird button placement (it's much easier to turn on and off a Nikon 
or a Pentax than a Canon, for example).
I have personally never really used a Sony or a Sigma, but I haven't 
heard anything good about the Sony menu structure.

In terms of speed, I'll give it to Canon: their EOS 7D mkII is probably 
the fastest camera in it's price range.

Having said all this, I'm not convinced I would recommend a DSLR these 
days, certainly not for a beginner.

If you're not going to change lenses (which most beginners don't), 
you're (imho) better off buying a Sony RX100 mkII (499euro, size of a 
compact camera, slightly more versatile lens than the 18-55mm on your 
DSLR, and the same image quality (or better, if you bought a Canon :))), 
or a Panasonic FZ1000 (699Euro, size of a small DSLR, virtually the same 
zoom range as an 18-300mm lens on your Nikon DSLR, slightly better image 
quality than a Canon DSLR (so about half as good as a Nikon, which is 
still a whole lot better than a normal compact camera) and weighs and 
costs about the same as that 18-300mm lens by itself), or ...
Point is that you don't need interchangeable lenses for good image 
quality or good speed anymore, that time is long past (ever since the 
Sony RX100 mkII, that is, so about 2 years now :))

However, if you want to be able to change lenses, and you're just 
starting, it is (again, imho) a better idea to invest in a mirrorless 
system, as DSLRs will (most probably) disappear from the market in about 
10 years. The advantages of a DSLR above a mirrorless camera are getting 
less every year. In the lower end, the only advantage a DSLR has today, 
is the viewfinder (low end mirrorless cameras don't have a viewfinder) 
and the available lenses (which isn't really a fair comparison: Nikons 
F-mount has been in use since 1959, Canons EF-mount since 1987, and 
mirrorless only since 2004 (or 2008 if you don't count Leica, which you 
probably shouldn't as it's out of most peoples price range :)))

But if you go mirrorless: stay away from the main DSLR brands, Nikon and 
Canon. They both seem to be more interested in protecting their DSLR 
market than they are in making a good mirrorless camera.

Sources: dpreview.com, dxomark.com, personal experience with most brands

cu!
-- 
ZK


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From: clipka
Subject: Re: Reflex
Date: 2 Feb 2016 21:51:28
Message: <56b16b30$1@news.povray.org>
Am 03.02.2016 um 00:27 schrieb Zeger Knaepen:
> Nikon has some weird default settings (like a fixed ISO.. when I use
> aperture priority, that means I only want to select the aperture, so the
> default ISO setting should be automatic, in my opinion),

I can't wrap my head around what the ISO setting is for on digital
cameras anyway. It's not like you can really change the sensor's light
sensitivity.

On a digital camera I'd expect to have a shutter speed setting so I can
control the movement blur, and an aperture setting so that I can control
the focal blur, and that's that.

But then again, what do I know about photography -- my only camera that
might still be in sufficiently working condition is a 2001 compact
digicam. (Oh, and the inbuilt camera of my smartphone.)


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