http://www.ebuyer.com/708786-recreated-zx-spectrum-kyb-zxspectrumbt

1. Why would anybody want this?

2. THE PRICE!!

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On Mon, 26 Oct 2015 18:12:33 +0000, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:

> http://www.ebuyer.com/708786-recreated-zx-spectrum-kyb-zxspectrumbt
> 
> 1. Why would anybody want this?

Nostalga.

Or as a teaching tool - earlier computer systems were far less complex 
than modern ones, so starting a student off with a simpler system can 
make learning much easier, depending on the goals of the instruction.

Jim
-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

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Le 26/10/2015 19:12, Orchid Win7 v1 a écrit :
> http://www.ebuyer.com/708786-recreated-zx-spectrum-kyb-zxspectrumbt
>
>  1. Why would anybody want this?
> 
> 2. THE PRICE!!

Isn't there a violation of design ? Would Amstrad not sue ?
(IIRC, Amstrad bought the rom of spectrum, which include the basic,
and might have let them in public domain, at least for emulator, yet
the design is part of the IP of Sinclair that also went into Amstrad's
hands).

The interesting part of the spectrum was the video output (PAL), the
expansion bus, and the tape facility. So far, all of them are missing
from the recreation.

How do you display ? (Pal is dead, and there is no display connector)

How do you print ?

How do you save & load ?

and IIRC, the keyboard (on membrane/printed circuit) was the weakest
point of the sinclair (with age, they become brittle and break when
you open the machine). That, and with usage, the gum of the keyboard
loose the print on it if you clean it too hard.

Back to the recreation: it's only a keyboard, you need a real
bluetooth device with a display... and you cannot even connect the old
joystick to it either.
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On 26/10/2015 06:27 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Oct 2015 18:12:33 +0000, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
>> 1. Why would anybody want this?
>
> Nostalga.

OK, I get nostalga. I am currently sitting next to an Amiga 1200. But at 
this price?! Jesus, you could surely buy a *real* Spectrum for less money!

(Now I'm curious to know what the original retail price was...)

> Or as a teaching tool - earlier computer systems were far less complex
> than modern ones, so starting a student off with a simpler system can
> make learning much easier, depending on the goals of the instruction.

Isn't that what the Raspberry Pi was supposed to do?

Don't get me wrong, I think it's *way* easier to learn system-level 
programming on obsolete hardware. (It's how *I* did it!) But I doubt 
many kids these days would get out of bed to see some blocky 8-bit graphics.

Which is why they invented the Pi, with it's full-HD video and audio 
capabilities and 3D rendering support... Which thus makes it impossible 
to do system-level programming, kinda negating the point.

And besides, for £0 you can probably just *download* a Spectrum emulator 
onto your PC or indeed phone or tablet... You don't actually need a 
physical box. (I don't know, but I'd be surprised if this thing actually 
contains a Z80. I bet it's really just a smartphone SoC running an 
emulator!)

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On 26/10/2015 06:46 PM, Le_Forgeron wrote:
> Isn't there a violation of design ? Would Amstrad not sue ?

Surely they bought the rights to do this. Otherwise there's a wide range 
of trademark and copyright violations. Some rip-off company in China 
might do that, but a commercial product like this is almost surely licensed.

> The interesting part of the spectrum was the video output (PAL), the
> expansion bus, and the tape facility. So far, all of them are missing
> from the recreation.

But it has Wi-Fi!

(Seriously, what the heck is that for?)

> How do you display ? (Pal is dead, and there is no display connector)

I might be wrong, but the "5V DC" connector looks *suspiciously* like an 
HDMI port. (Or maybe it's micro-USB?)

> How do you print ?
>
> How do you save&  load ?

WiFi, I guess?

(Wait, you can *print* from a Spectrum? I never knew that!)

> and IIRC, the keyboard (on membrane/printed circuit) was the weakest
> point of the sinclair (with age, they become brittle and break when
> you open the machine). That, and with usage, the gum of the keyboard
> loose the print on it if you clean it too hard.

I don't know, I quite liked that keyboard, and the little click noise it 
used to make when you type stuff...

...wait, scrub that. I just remembered what it was like to *type* 
anything! But still, it's arguably the single most memorable feature.

> Back to the recreation: it's only a keyboard, you need a real
> bluetooth device with a display... and you cannot even connect the old
> joystick to it either.

Oh, really? Wow, that's poor. Especially at such a price... You could 
find a *real* one for less on ebay or whatever.

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Le 26/10/2015 20:05, Orchid Win7 v1 a écrit :
> 
> (Wait, you can *print* from a Spectrum? I never knew that!)

Yes, there was a thermal printer (for thermal paper) to connect on the
expansion bus.

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On 26/10/2015 07:19 PM, Le_Forgeron wrote:
> Le 26/10/2015 20:05, Orchid Win7 v1 a écrit :
>> (Wait, you can *print* from a Spectrum? I never knew that!)
>
> Yes, there was a thermal printer (for thermal paper) to connect on the
> expansion bus.

Huh. I did not know that. Come to mention it, I don't remember there 
being an expansion port!

Ah, the hours I wasted with our Spectrum hooked up to a portable 4" CRT 
monitor. Do you know what 8x8 characters look like on a 4" screen with 
manually-tuned RF? I do...

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Le 26/10/2015 20:24, Orchid Win7 v1 a écrit :
> On 26/10/2015 07:19 PM, Le_Forgeron wrote:
>> Le 26/10/2015 20:05, Orchid Win7 v1 a écrit :
>>> (Wait, you can *print* from a Spectrum? I never knew that!)
>> 
>> Yes, there was a thermal printer (for thermal paper) to connect
>> on the expansion bus.
> 
> Huh. I did not know that. Come to mention it, I don't remember
> there being an expansion port!

You remember the pcb at the back, that is the expansion bus... At
least for the original 16k and 48k model. I do not remember if there
was a default plug/cache on it or if it was all time open.

The 128k wasted all: the keyboard and rear was different. (and the
128k were via bank switching of 16k... otherwise, it was like a 32k +
16k switched... and the double size rom (16k x 2) was also switched.
Well, it's only a 16 bits Z80, what did you expect !

> 
> Ah, the hours I wasted with our Spectrum hooked up to a portable 4"
> CRT monitor. Do you know what 8x8 characters look like on a 4"
> screen with manually-tuned RF? I do...

Mine was hooked on TV. oh the battles vs the TV shows.
Only 2 colours per 8x8 pixels was the main drawback of the display.
(and the fancy flash mode bit... hardly documented, surprising to use)
That, and only 8 colours.
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On 10/26/2015 9:06 PM, Le_Forgeron wrote:
> That, and only 8 colours.

Colours! and eight of them?
The first games I played the output was a printer.


-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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On Mon, 26 Oct 2015 19:01:28 +0000, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:

> On 26/10/2015 06:27 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> On Mon, 26 Oct 2015 18:12:33 +0000, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
>>> 1. Why would anybody want this?
>>
>> Nostalga.
> 
> OK, I get nostalga. I am currently sitting next to an Amiga 1200. But at
> this price?! Jesus, you could surely buy a *real* Spectrum for less
> money!
> 
> (Now I'm curious to know what the original retail price was...)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZX_Spectrum

Lists some original retail price.  Don't thank me, thank Google. ;)

>> Or as a teaching tool - earlier computer systems were far less complex
>> than modern ones, so starting a student off with a simpler system can
>> make learning much easier, depending on the goals of the instruction.
> 
> Isn't that what the Raspberry Pi was supposed to do?

Depends a lot on what you want to teach.

> Don't get me wrong, I think it's *way* easier to learn system-level
> programming on obsolete hardware. (It's how *I* did it!) But I doubt
> many kids these days would get out of bed to see some blocky 8-bit
> graphics.

Also depends on what you want to teach.

> Which is why they invented the Pi, with it's full-HD video and audio
> capabilities and 3D rendering support... Which thus makes it impossible
> to do system-level programming, kinda negating the point.

You certainly can do system-level programming on the RPi.  How do you 
think you get a kernel developed to run on it? ;)

> And besides, for £0 you can probably just *download* a Spectrum emulator
> onto your PC or indeed phone or tablet... You don't actually need a
> physical box. (I don't know, but I'd be surprised if this thing actually
> contains a Z80. I bet it's really just a smartphone SoC running an
> emulator!)

Not the same, and as I said, it depends on what you want to teach.

Jim
-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

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