On Sat, 10 Jan 2015 10:21:42 +0000, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:

>> At the same time, though, we don't feel the need to apologise to that
>> part of the world for every drone strike gone wrong - an act of
>> destruction that's perpetrated by a few who claim to be "speaking" on
>> behalf of many.
> 
> And that, I guess, is what all this is really about. It's not about
> religion, it's about "you killed my family so now I'm going to kill
> yours".

For some it's about vengeance, yes.  For others, there are other 
motivating factors.

> How exactly Islam came to be the bad guy... That I don't have the
> historical perspective to answer.

I might need to do a gravity check here. ;)

>> I'm going to have to remember that definition of "BNP".  That's a good
>> one. :)
> 
> What did you *think* it stands for? :-P

Well, I know what members of the BNP and the "serious" British media use 
in their reporting. :)

Jim
-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

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Am 10.01.2015 um 13:03 schrieb Stephen:
> On 10/01/2015 10:21, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
>> How exactly Islam came to be the bad guy... That I don't have the
>> historical perspective to answer.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moors#Moors_of_Iberia
>
> and
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades
>
> For starters

I think that old bloodshed bullshit had been mostly lost in the dust of 
time already. Around 1900, I don't think anyone saw Islam as a serious 
threat; the role of bogeyman had already become occupied by Judaism by 
then, not only in Germany but throughout the Western world.

But during and after WW1, Allied politics messed up the Middle East 
pretty badly, first by luring the Arabs into fighting the Ottoman Empire 
on promises apparently never intended to be fulfilled, and later by 
driving wedges between the various religious groups there; the region 
hasn't recovered ever since, and the situation has by now exploded into 
the face of the West.

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Orchid Win7 v1 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> Ass a true follower of Islam, it must be really saddening when you see 
> some bunch of nutters do something insane in the name of your own 
> religion...

A moderate muslim cannot follow the Quran to the letter. Exactly like
with the Bible, there's a lot of whitewashing of the Quran to try to
make it sound more benevolent than it really is.

The whitewashing works quite well because not many westerners have
actually studied the Quran. You hear all kinds of claims like "the
Quran only allows fighting infidels for self defense", even though
that's not true at all.

For example, the infamous verse 9:29 that says "Fight those who believe
not in Allah" is not saying "only if they attack first". In context,
what the passage is Allah's word to Muhammad that says, basically,
that if he runs out of money, he should fight the infidels until they
are subjugated and pay the Jizyah (which is basically a tax to be paid
by non-muslims who are under islamic rule.)

There are other, even more gruesome passages. For example this is the
one that's used by many terrorists to justify their acts:

"The recompense of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger
and do mischief in the land is only that they shall be killed or
crucified or their hands and their feet be cut off on the opposite
sides, or be exiled from the land." (Quran 5:33)

Those terrorists in London who murdered Lee Rigby? They were quoting
that exact verse to the reporters. They were following their holy
book.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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