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<rant>
Got this email last week about a position I had applied for back in
early May ... stated "Please contact me ASAP if you're still interested
in this position". Evidently the person that was hired wasn't working
out. Replied ... "Sure I'm still available and I would be glad to meet
with you at your convenience". The next day as I was heading home from
helping brother-in-law clean up two storm fallen trees, I get a call on
my cell asking if I could come in right away for an interview. I
indicated that I'd needed to get home first and get cleaned up. His
response ... "We're very informal here so come on ahead". I thought how
odd, but I was there within a half hour ... wait it get's stranger.
Before I'd even finished introductions (hand shaking etc) he told me
that he wasn't even going to bother with technical aspects of interview.
He added that he was ex US Navy and had gone through the same
electronics training that I had and that my credentials weren't going to
be an issue. We swapped Navy stories for about 45 minutes, then started
a tour of shop area ... then on the way back to the office he turned to
me and ask what my religious beliefs were!!!! I thoughtfully offered
that I hadn't been to church since I was a young man, however I did take
a theology course in college to fulfill my humanities requirement.
Things proceeded normally and as we parted he indicated that he needed
some time to "pray on it" and that he would get back to me shortly. Two
days after interview I sent follow up email thanking him for his time. A
week after interview sent another email asking if there had been any
movement on his opportunity, and got a reply indicating that he was
swamped with quotes to new clients, and that he would get back to me by
the end of the week ... this past Friday. Monday afternoon sent another
email that went unanswered ... I think the handwriting is on the wall,
that I won't be made an offer. Now you wonder that given what I've
written so far, why would I want to work for such a person/company ...
well I desperately need a job. Finally I'd like to add that it's my
understanding that asking about my religious beliefs (among other
things) is a no-no here in the US (don't know or care about elsewhere)
and that if I wanted to be a prick about it I could make trouble. Fat
chance of it going anywhere if I did stir it up, as it was just us two
and it would eventually boil down to my word against his. Sad state of
affairs ... don't you think?
</rant>
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> <rant>
> Got this email last week about a position I had applied for back in
> early May ... stated "Please contact me ASAP if you're still interested
> in this position". Evidently the person that was hired wasn't working
> out. Replied ... "Sure I'm still available and I would be glad to meet
> with you at your convenience". The next day as I was heading home from
> helping brother-in-law clean up two storm fallen trees, I get a call on
> my cell asking if I could come in right away for an interview. I
> indicated that I'd needed to get home first and get cleaned up. His
> response ... "We're very informal here so come on ahead". I thought how
> odd, but I was there within a half hour ... wait it get's stranger.
> Before I'd even finished introductions (hand shaking etc) he told me
> that he wasn't even going to bother with technical aspects of interview.
> He added that he was ex US Navy and had gone through the same
> electronics training that I had and that my credentials weren't going to
> be an issue. We swapped Navy stories for about 45 minutes, then started
> a tour of shop area ... then on the way back to the office he turned to
> me and ask what my religious beliefs were!!!! I thoughtfully offered
> that I hadn't been to church since I was a young man, however I did take
> a theology course in college to fulfill my humanities requirement.
> Things proceeded normally and as we parted he indicated that he needed
> some time to "pray on it" and that he would get back to me shortly. Two
> days after interview I sent follow up email thanking him for his time. A
> week after interview sent another email asking if there had been any
> movement on his opportunity, and got a reply indicating that he was
> swamped with quotes to new clients, and that he would get back to me by
> the end of the week ... this past Friday. Monday afternoon sent another
> email that went unanswered ... I think the handwriting is on the wall,
> that I won't be made an offer. Now you wonder that given what I've
> written so far, why would I want to work for such a person/company ...
> well I desperately need a job. Finally I'd like to add that it's my
> understanding that asking about my religious beliefs (among other
> things) is a no-no here in the US (don't know or care about elsewhere)
> and that if I wanted to be a prick about it I could make trouble. Fat
> chance of it going anywhere if I did stir it up, as it was just us two
> and it would eventually boil down to my word against his. Sad state of
> affairs ... don't you think?
> </rant>
If you did raise a stink about it, and the company was forced to hire
you, you'd know that this person would probably never fully trust you
and it would make the workplace atmosphere very heavy.
--
/*Francois Labreque*/#local a=x+y;#local b=x+a;#local c=a+b;#macro P(F//
/* flabreque */L)polygon{5,F,F+z,L+z,L,F pigment{rgb 9}}#end union
/* @ */{P(0,a)P(a,b)P(b,c)P(2*a,2*b)P(2*b,b+c)P(b+c,<2,3>)
/* gmail.com */}camera{orthographic location<6,1.25,-6>look_at a }
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On 07/23/2014 09:09 AM, Francois Labreque wrote:
>> <rant>
>> Got this email last week about a position I had applied for back in
>> early May ... stated "Please contact me ASAP if you're still interested
>> in this position". Evidently the person that was hired wasn't working
>> out. Replied ... "Sure I'm still available and I would be glad to meet
>> with you at your convenience". The next day as I was heading home from
>> helping brother-in-law clean up two storm fallen trees, I get a call on
>> my cell asking if I could come in right away for an interview. I
>> indicated that I'd needed to get home first and get cleaned up. His
>> response ... "We're very informal here so come on ahead". I thought how
>> odd, but I was there within a half hour ... wait it get's stranger.
>> Before I'd even finished introductions (hand shaking etc) he told me
>> that he wasn't even going to bother with technical aspects of interview.
>> He added that he was ex US Navy and had gone through the same
>> electronics training that I had and that my credentials weren't going to
>> be an issue. We swapped Navy stories for about 45 minutes, then started
>> a tour of shop area ... then on the way back to the office he turned to
>> me and ask what my religious beliefs were!!!! I thoughtfully offered
>> that I hadn't been to church since I was a young man, however I did take
>> a theology course in college to fulfill my humanities requirement.
>> Things proceeded normally and as we parted he indicated that he needed
>> some time to "pray on it" and that he would get back to me shortly. Two
>> days after interview I sent follow up email thanking him for his time. A
>> week after interview sent another email asking if there had been any
>> movement on his opportunity, and got a reply indicating that he was
>> swamped with quotes to new clients, and that he would get back to me by
>> the end of the week ... this past Friday. Monday afternoon sent another
>> email that went unanswered ... I think the handwriting is on the wall,
>> that I won't be made an offer. Now you wonder that given what I've
>> written so far, why would I want to work for such a person/company ...
>> well I desperately need a job. Finally I'd like to add that it's my
>> understanding that asking about my religious beliefs (among other
>> things) is a no-no here in the US (don't know or care about elsewhere)
>> and that if I wanted to be a prick about it I could make trouble. Fat
>> chance of it going anywhere if I did stir it up, as it was just us two
>> and it would eventually boil down to my word against his. Sad state of
>> affairs ... don't you think?
>> </rant>
>
> If you did raise a stink about it, and the company was forced to hire
> you, you'd know that this person would probably never fully trust you
> and it would make the workplace atmosphere very heavy.
>
no kidding ... i guess my task now is to burn off a few calories in a
more productive manner (wax on wax off)
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On Wed, 23 Jul 2014 07:37:59 -0400, James Holsenback wrote:
> Sad
> state of affairs ... don't you think?
Very much so.
If that question came up (it fortunately hasn't for me), my answer would
probably be something along the lines of "The position in question is
looking for a number of skills I have; how do my personal beliefs relate
to the responsibilities of the job?"
This seems good:
http://www.businessinsider.com/when-hr-asks-about-religion-in-
interview-2014-5
So does this (from "Ask a Manager" - I really like the "That's an unusual
question, why do you ask?" answer)
http://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/outside-voices-careers/2011/01/10/is-
that-interview-question-legal
Jim
--
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw
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On Wed, 23 Jul 2014 09:09:41 -0400, Francois Labreque wrote:
> If you did raise a stink about it, and the company was forced to hire
> you,
> you'd know that this person would probably never fully trust you and it
> would make the workplace atmosphere very heavy.
The purpose in raising a stink about it isn't so much so they hire you,
but so they know that making hiring decisions in that way is in fact
illegal in the US.
I would never want to take a job with a company that put personal
religious belief before one's ability to do the job. There was a company
in that I considered working for, until I found this on their website:
"[company] started the company with a vision and core values inspired by
their religious beliefs and a desire to honor God by applying Biblical
principles in relation to employees, customers, and financial dealings."
I see that they have now clarified (they didn't at the time, as I recall)
that they don't have a particular religious *requirement*.
I didn't even bother applying. Not because I'm amoral, but because the
religious overtones left a bad impression. It's possible to say that you
expect people to be responsible and ethical (indeed, what company
*doesn't* want that?) without framing it in religious terms.
Jim
--
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw
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On Wed, 23 Jul 2014 13:38:11 -0400, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Jul 2014 09:09:41 -0400, Francois Labreque wrote:
>
>> If you did raise a stink about it, and the company was forced to hire
>> you,
>> you'd know that this person would probably never fully trust you and it
>> would make the workplace atmosphere very heavy.
>
> The purpose in raising a stink about it isn't so much so they hire you,
> but so they know that making hiring decisions in that way is in fact
> illegal in the US.
>
> I would never want to take a job with a company that put personal
> religious belief before one's ability to do the job. There was a
> company in that I considered working for, until I found this on their
> website:
>
> "[company] started the company with a vision and core values inspired by
> their religious beliefs and a desire to honor God by applying Biblical
> principles in relation to employees, customers, and financial dealings."
>
> I see that they have now clarified (they didn't at the time, as I
> recall)
> that they don't have a particular religious *requirement*.
>
> I didn't even bother applying. Not because I'm amoral, but because the
> religious overtones left a bad impression. It's possible to say that
> you expect people to be responsible and ethical (indeed, what company
> *doesn't* want that?) without framing it in religious terms.
>
> Jim
BTW, James, if you want to ping me offline (I believe you have my e-mail
address), I'd be happy to keep my eyes open in my own professional
network for positions that match up with what you're looking for.
Jim
--
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw
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...in the HELL?!
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Le 2014-07-23 13:28, Jim Henderson a écrit :
> On Wed, 23 Jul 2014 07:37:59 -0400, James Holsenback wrote:
>
>> Sad
>> state of affairs ... don't you think?
>
> Very much so.
>
> If that question came up (it fortunately hasn't for me), my answer would
> probably be something along the lines of "The position in question is
> looking for a number of skills I have; how do my personal beliefs relate
> to the responsibilities of the job?"
>
> This seems good:
>
> http://www.businessinsider.com/when-hr-asks-about-religion-in-
> interview-2014-5
I was going to say that we do most of our maintenance releases on
Saturdays, and this can cause problems with the more pious jews. but
apart from that, it shouldn't matter.
--
/*Francois Labreque*/#local a=x+y;#local b=x+a;#local c=a+b;#macro P(F//
/* flabreque */L)polygon{5,F,F+z,L+z,L,F pigment{rgb 9}}#end union
/* @ */{P(0,a)P(a,b)P(b,c)P(2*a,2*b)P(2*b,b+c)P(b+c,<2,3>)
/* gmail.com */}camera{orthographic location<6,1.25,-6>look_at a }
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>> Sad
>> state of affairs ... don't you think?
>
> Very much so.
>
> If that question came up (it fortunately hasn't for me), my answer would
> probably be something along the lines of "The position in question is
> looking for a number of skills I have; how do my personal beliefs relate
> to the responsibilities of the job?"
Or something like, "Oh - will it be a problem if I'm not available
Sunday mornings to work?" :-)
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I hear there are still some places in the US where there are basically
closet atheists who pretend to be Christians because else they would be
shunned and discriminated against. They would basically become outcasts.
Love and tolerance indeed...
--
- Warp
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