On 8/1/2013 11:38 AM, Shay wrote:
> "Patrick Elliott"  wrote in message news:51faa419$1@news.povray.org...
>> Uh, no.. Rising unemployment and income equality is the direct
>> result of the wolves deciding the the rabbits where not enough,
>> and they should be allowed to eat "everything".
>
> We agree more than you think. Low-cost/no-cost goods (or labor) lead to
> a loss of economic equilibrium. This is common to both our stories.
>
> Some people in very unfortunate situations must undersell their goods or
> labor. Remedies for this situation are not the subject of this thread.
>
Actually, my point is, when the wolves are the ones making the 
decisions, they are the ones that end up "over pricing" the goods, and 
"under pricing" the labor. This is always one thing that irritates the 
hell out of my about the people in the US that insisting on using the 
term "libertarian". They always seem to think you "Fix things" by either 
intentionally buying the more expensive goods, and thus taking money 
away from the bad employers, and "choosing the higher paid jobs", 
instead of just what ever job you can actually get. What they flat out 
refuse to acknowledge is that, more often than not, the current economic 
model functions on four principles:

1. Charge for everything, even if you could give it away as part of the 
deal.
2. Pay as little as possible to the people making it all work.
3. Pay the top people, at minimum, 50x what the guy on the bottom makes.
4. Stare in incomprehension, when people tell you they can't afford your 
"cheap" goods.

Almost nothing is ever priced what it actually costs to make it, without 
adding on a "huge" margin, which gets funneled, almost entirely, to the 
people who do the least bloody actual work. The few places that either 
don't, or are not as blatant about it, either a) get called fools, or 
b), yes, temporarily, for as long as needed to kill their business, 
maybe undercut by enough that they can't afford to compete. Only.. half 
of their costs come from someone they are not in competition to, 
overcharging for goods, which only the people undercutting everyone else 
can afford to pay for.

As I said.. the wolves get to each everything. And then sit around 
howling, when, all of the sudden, their fat asses find themselves 
missing a meal or two, because part of the ecosystem collapses.

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"Jim Henderson" <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote in message 
news:51fd637c$1@news.povray.org...
>
> Where did you specifically go?  I can get someone to look into it and see
> what's wrong.

https://forums.suse.com/search.php?do=process

>
> But if you want to install from a USB drive (or install to a USB drive),
> you might try the wiki at http://en.opensuse.org - I know there are a
> couple pages that cover those topics.

Thank you.

 -Shay

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Internet Explorer 10
Version: 10.0.9200.16635
Update Versions: 10.0.7 (KB2846071)
Product ID: 00150-20000-00003-AA459

Typed, not pasted, so there may be mistakes.

 -Shay


"Shay" <non### [at] nonecom> wrote in message news:51fdc87a$1@news.povray.org...
>
>
> "Jim Henderson" <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote in message 
> news:51fd637c$1@news.povray.org...
>>
>> Where did you specifically go?  I can get someone to look into it and see
>> what's wrong.
>
> https://forums.suse.com/search.php?do=process
>
>>
>> But if you want to install from a USB drive (or install to a USB drive),
>> you might try the wiki at http://en.opensuse.org - I know there are a
>> couple pages that cover those topics.
>
> Thank you.
>
> -Shay

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On Sat, 03 Aug 2013 22:20:22 -0500, Shay wrote:

> "Jim Henderson" <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote in message
> news:51fd637c$1@news.povray.org...
>>
>> Where did you specifically go?  I can get someone to look into it and
>> see what's wrong.
> 
> https://forums.suse.com/search.php?do=process

Thanks - since you indicated your browser (and I'm guessing a recent 
Windows platform - 7 or 8?), I'll see if I can get someone to check it 
out.

>> But if you want to install from a USB drive (or install to a USB
>> drive), you might try the wiki at http://en.opensuse.org - I know there
>> are a couple pages that cover those topics.
> 
> Thank you.

Glad to help out. :)

Jim

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On Sat, 03 Aug 2013 22:23:48 -0500, Shay wrote:

> Internet Explorer 10 Version: 10.0.9200.16635 Update Versions: 10.0.7
> (KB2846071)
> Product ID: 00150-20000-00003-AA459
> 
> Typed, not pasted, so there may be mistakes.

Great, thanks.  :)

I've asked if anyone's able to dupe it, hopefully that'll identify the 
problem.  I did a check from Linux with Chrome, and I was able to see it 
OK.

Jim

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Patrick Elliott <kag### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> The way it has generally worked in Africa is - someone comes in to 
> provide "basic" help, with the idea that, actually fed, and clothed, the 
> people would be able to actually produce some sort of industry. Only, 
> various local warlords then steal what ever those people now have, and 
> resell it, someplace else, to make themselves rich, and the people 
> everyone was trying to help are, if anything, worse off than they where 
> before, because now the asses in control have more resources, to help 
> them oppress/steal from those people.

I once heard a speech made by a charity worker who said that all donations
go to help the poor in African countries, and they make sure that the
money doesn't go to the wrong hands by only bringing things like school
supplies and such to those countries. If a thieving gang tries to raid
the supplies, all they will find is pens, books and such things that are
basically worthless for them.

These charities have good intentions, but they are a bit naive. The
criminals have their ways around that problem. What they do is to basically
hijack the supplies and demand ransom money from the recipients or they
will destroy them. The charity workers are helpless to do anything about
that.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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"Jim Henderson" <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote in message 
news:51fdd55b$1@news.povray.org...
> On Sat, 03 Aug 2013 22:20:22 -0500, Shay wrote:
>
> Thanks - since you indicated your browser (and I'm guessing a recent
> Windows platform - 7 or 8?), I'll see if I can get someone to check it
> out.

Windows 7.

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On Sun, 04 Aug 2013 08:54:03 -0500, Shay wrote:

> "Jim Henderson" <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote in message
> news:51fdd55b$1@news.povray.org...
>> On Sat, 03 Aug 2013 22:20:22 -0500, Shay wrote:
>>
>> Thanks - since you indicated your browser (and I'm guessing a recent
>> Windows platform - 7 or 8?), I'll see if I can get someone to check it
>> out.
> 
> Windows 7.

K, thanks.

Jim

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> But, then.. there is always the interesting "DIY/3d Printing/Small scale
> manufacturing" trend starting.. And, in that fun case, if everyone is a
> warlord (i.e. they can all make and sell things, easily), then... the
> warlords may finally find themselves in deep trouble.

Apart from the warlords can finance an expensive machine that can run 
off 1000000 of your 3D printed part and sell it for 50x cheaper. That 
isn't about to change, the economies of scale are always there. There 
is, and always has been, the option for small entrepreneurs to become 
warlords and compete with the others.

> But, overall, the next result has been a gain. Its just.. there is
> always the subset of people, gaming the system, at everyone else's
> expense, and.. they always have the money to buy the law, on some level.

The thing is it's us, the consumers, that drive such behaviour. Given 
the choice between a product made in your own country, and a cheaper one 
made abroad somewhere, people choose the cheaper one. If you want to 
force people to buy stuff made in your own country you need to tax 
imports out of the market, but will that really lead to a net gain?

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On 8/5/2013 1:01 AM, scott wrote:
> The thing is it's us, the consumers, that drive such behaviour. Given
> the choice between a product made in your own country, and a cheaper one
> made abroad somewhere, people choose the cheaper one. If you want to
> force people to buy stuff made in your own country you need to tax
> imports out of the market, but will that really lead to a net gain?
>
Well, like I said, if they won't pay you enough to buy the one that 
costs more... But, also, the average person doesn't have a damn clue 
where something is made, and having a "made here" label on it can simply 
even mean, 'We paid someone so little they can't buy one, to screw the 
parts made in some other country together.'

But, hell, even I can't afford to buy "best", and I have fewer bills, 
and slightly better pay that like 90% of the people in the country. That 
is a **major** problem. Its not, frankly, unlike what happens with birth 
control, or medical practices some people don't like, or anything else 
similar. Just because, in theory, you can buy something else, doesn't 
mean, in reality, that you can afford the time, cost, travel distances, 
percentage of your income you can afford to spend, or what ever else has 
been put in the way, to get it. And, that is my core point. If the 
playing field is so badly imbalanced, that almost no one can pick the 
better option, or there just isn't a better option, then the "theory" 
that you can fix things by buying local, is a complete non-starter.

Maybe, if people started doing that 20 years ago, but then we could have 
avoided the current problem. But, at this point. People need better pay, 
so they can even have the choice, and even then, every place has been 
"walmart"-ized, to the point where, often, even if you could afford 
another option, there isn't one available. Its all well and good to tell 
the person that is already drowning, that they should have had a life 
vest, or a row boat, when the real problem is that the ship they boarded 
was called "Titanic".

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