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On 12/09/2012 02:24 PM, Francois Labreque wrote:
>> My best guess is that most computer lusers are so stupid that MS Word is
>> the only document format that they know exists, so recruiters just cater
>> to that.
>>
>
> You are an IT geek. They are recruiters. You know and understand
> computers. They know and understand HR concepts. Just because they don't
> share your deep understanding of computers doesn't mean they're stupid.
> Just like the fact that you don't understand the first thing about going
> on an interview or selling yourself means you're stupid.
>
> It would really do you a ton of good to stop using hyperbole and to try
> to view the world with an open mind, and not have so many preconceived
> notions about it.
If you reread, I didn't say the recruiters are stupid, but rather the
people they try to recruit.
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On 12/09/2012 02:18 PM, scott wrote:
>>> Maybe they're putting it into a neutral/common format before sending it
>>> to the company? I've seen that a few times.
>>
>> Which is amusing, because PDF is a "neutral/common format", while MS
>> Word is a closed, proprietary format. You would /think/ it should be the
>> other way around...
>
> I meant format as in the layout/font etc, not the file format. In order
> to change that it's easier to start with Word rather than a PDF.
OK, well I guess that makes sense. As I say, PDF doesn't contain the
logical information necessary to make that particularly easy to do.
> The
> same way some companies want you to fill in all your details on a
> website rather than post a CV, it just makes it easier for them to
> process all the applications when all the answers are the same boxes.
Yeah - but I doubt you could easily get that out of any document format
in a suitably "automatic" way...
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On 12/09/2012 3:42 PM, Le_Forgeron wrote:
> You were lucky, or the IT industry-RH changed to better practices a lot
> from 17 years ago.
> I never got feedback about good focus on CV for a customer by that time,
> but many liars, yes, and from different companies, big & small.
Some recruiters will do that. Expand this, mention that etc.
But I admit I've never had one on the phone for an hour.
--
Regards
Stephen
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On 12/09/2012 5:51 PM, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
> On 12/09/2012 02:24 PM, Francois Labreque wrote:
>>> My best guess is that most computer lusers are so stupid that MS Word is
>>> the only document format that they know exists, so recruiters just cater
>>> to that.
>>>
>>
>> You are an IT geek. They are recruiters. You know and understand
>> computers. They know and understand HR concepts. Just because they don't
>> share your deep understanding of computers doesn't mean they're stupid.
>> Just like the fact that you don't understand the first thing about going
>> on an interview or selling yourself means you're stupid.
>>
>> It would really do you a ton of good to stop using hyperbole and to try
>> to view the world with an open mind, and not have so many preconceived
>> notions about it.
>
> If you reread, I didn't say the recruiters are stupid, but rather the
> people they try to recruit.
That is true but Francois's main point is the relevant one.
>> You are an IT geek. They are recruiters
>> It would really do you a ton of good to stop using hyperbole and to try
>> to view the world with an open mind, and not have so many preconceived
>> notions about it.
We live in their world and if we want to get on in it we must al least
try to conform.
--
Regards
Stephen
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> On 12/09/2012 02:18 PM, scott wrote:
>>>> Maybe they're putting it into a neutral/common format before sending it
>>>> to the company? I've seen that a few times.
>>>
>>> Which is amusing, because PDF is a "neutral/common format", while MS
>>> Word is a closed, proprietary format. You would /think/ it should be the
>>> other way around...
>>
>> I meant format as in the layout/font etc, not the file format. In order
>> to change that it's easier to start with Word rather than a PDF.
>
> OK, well I guess that makes sense. As I say, PDF doesn't contain the
> logical information necessary to make that particularly easy to do.
>
>> The
>> same way some companies want you to fill in all your details on a
>> website rather than post a CV, it just makes it easier for them to
>> process all the applications when all the answers are the same boxes.
>
> Yeah - but I doubt you could easily get that out of any document format
> in a suitably "automatic" way...
You just found your employment opportunity. Offer to program it for
them. ;)
--
/*Francois Labreque*/#local a=x+y;#local b=x+a;#local c=a+b;#macro P(F//
/* flabreque */L)polygon{5,F,F+z,L+z,L,F pigment{rgb 9}}#end union
/* @ */{P(0,a)P(a,b)P(b,c)P(2*a,2*b)P(2*b,b+c)P(b+c,<2,3>)
/* gmail.com */}camera{orthographic location<6,1.25,-6>look_at a }
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> On 12/09/2012 02:24 PM, Francois Labreque wrote:
>>> My best guess is that most computer lusers are so stupid that MS Word is
>>> the only document format that they know exists, so recruiters just cater
>>> to that.
>>>
>>
>> You are an IT geek. They are recruiters. You know and understand
>> computers. They know and understand HR concepts. Just because they don't
>> share your deep understanding of computers doesn't mean they're stupid.
>> Just like the fact that you don't understand the first thing about going
>> on an interview or selling yourself means you're stupid.
>>
>> It would really do you a ton of good to stop using hyperbole and to try
>> to view the world with an open mind, and not have so many preconceived
>> notions about it.
>
> If you reread, I didn't say the recruiters are stupid, but rather the
> people they try to recruit.
My point still stands. The fact that they've never seen anything else
than Windows or Office doesn't make them stupid.
--
/*Francois Labreque*/#local a=x+y;#local b=x+a;#local c=a+b;#macro P(F//
/* flabreque */L)polygon{5,F,F+z,L+z,L,F pigment{rgb 9}}#end union
/* @ */{P(0,a)P(a,b)P(b,c)P(2*a,2*b)P(2*b,b+c)P(b+c,<2,3>)
/* gmail.com */}camera{orthographic location<6,1.25,-6>look_at a }
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>> You were lucky, or the IT industry-RH changed to better practices a lot
>> from 17 years ago.
>> I never got feedback about good focus on CV for a customer by that time,
>> but many liars, yes, and from different companies, big & small.
>
> Some recruiters will do that. Expand this, mention that etc.
> But I admit I've never had one on the phone for an hour.
Admittedly this was for an engineering job and not IT, maybe the number
of candidates is much higher in IT so the recruiters needn't spend as
much effort to find someone. I got the distinct impression from both the
recruiter and the employer that they really didn't have many other
suitable applicants.
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On 13/09/2012 8:24 AM, scott wrote:
> Admittedly this was for an engineering job and not IT, maybe the number
> of candidates is much higher in IT so the recruiters needn't spend as
> much effort to find someone. I got the distinct impression from both the
> recruiter and the employer that they really didn't have many other
> suitable applicants.
Could be and lucky you. :-D
--
Regards
Stephen
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On 9/12/2012 4:38, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
> Which is amusing, because PDF is a "neutral/common format",
But not easily editable.
> Perhaps. Although it's pretty trivial to find keywords in a PDF file too.
Not as easy as with Word, given that Word is scriptable and PDF isn't.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
"They're the 1-800-#-GORILA of the telecom business."
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On 15/09/2012 05:43 AM, Darren New wrote:
> On 9/12/2012 4:38, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
>> Which is amusing, because PDF is a "neutral/common format",
>
> But not easily editable.
This is true - which is my main reason for choosing it, ironically.
The question is, why would anybody want to edit my CV? (And the answer,
apparently, is "to make all the CVs look similar". I guess all that work
I spent on making my CV stand out was totally worth it, eh?)
It's interesting that even if you pay £400 for Adobe's full Acrobat
product, you /still/ can't really "edit" PDF files with it. (!) Given
that this is the only reason for that product existing... wow.
>> Perhaps. Although it's pretty trivial to find keywords in a PDF file too.
>
> Not as easy as with Word, given that Word is scriptable and PDF isn't.
Point of fact: PDF is scriptable. You can embed JavaScript within it.
Our document management system at work did this; you download a document
as PDF, and after X hours the PDF file becomes completely blank.
Annoying as hell, really...
But, tying back to the "you can't edit PDF using commonly available
tools", this kind of scriptability isn't especially useful.
That said, the raw text inside a PDF file is usually only Flate
compressed, so you can just Deflate it and there ya go.
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