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>> turn the air conditioning on! ;-)
>
> Hmm, wet + cold = hypothermia.
>
> No thanks. :)
In all cars I've been in you can use the air-con with heat, not just
cool. In winter it is much more effective at demisting the windows if
you the A/C turned on (along with heat), especially if the occupants are
wet.
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On 03/05/2012 10:14 AM, scott wrote:
>> Screw fans, turn the air conditioning on! ;-)
>
> I thought it was only cars that cost at least half a million pounds that
> have air conditioning in them? And that you wouldn't know anyone or ever
> have been in a car with air conditioning?
That certainly *was* the case once. Curiously, while A/C and electric
windows used to be expensive luxuries that nobody but the Prime Minister
could afford, today it seems that almost *every* car has these things.
And I'm not sure how that happened... Presumably it still costs exactly
the same amount of money to actually manufacture these things so...?
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Le 04/05/2012 09:54, Invisible a écrit :
> On 03/05/2012 10:14 AM, scott wrote:
>>> Screw fans, turn the air conditioning on! ;-)
>>
>> I thought it was only cars that cost at least half a million pounds that
>> have air conditioning in them? And that you wouldn't know anyone or ever
>> have been in a car with air conditioning?
>
> That certainly *was* the case once. Curiously, while A/C and electric
> windows used to be expensive luxuries that nobody but the Prime Minister
> could afford, today it seems that almost *every* car has these things.
> And I'm not sure how that happened... Presumably it still costs exactly
> the same amount of money to actually manufacture these things so...?
>
Manufacture, yes.
Conception, no.
In the production of cars, a significant amount of the price might be
due to the studies.
It uses to take 5 years to make a new car.
It means that if you produced only one item at the end, that item costed
5 years of salary of many peoples, at least.
Notice that the actual assembly does not take 5 years. It's only a tiny
fraction of the full time.
For instance, ferrari/lamborghini/... are producing in the range of 1
car a working day (or alike), whereas Renauld/Nissan/Citroen/Toyota are
producing probably in the range of 1 car every minutes.
Assuming you have a yearly model change, the former have 200 cars to get
back the cost of the studies, the latter have 100000 cars for that.
Assumes you have a low cost of studies at 10 Millions ($,€ or £) for the
5 years (very small budget).
The minimal price (not including the actual material of each car) would be:
* 50000 for the former
* 100 for the latter
Then you can add the price for the material & manufacturing.
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> That certainly *was* the case once. Curiously, while A/C and electric
> windows used to be expensive luxuries that nobody but the Prime Minister
> could afford, today it seems that almost *every* car has these things.
> And I'm not sure how that happened...
It happens with everything in cars. Electric mirrors, tape players, CD
players, MP3 capability, bluetooth, LCD display in instrument cluster,
ABS, traction control, stability control, flat-tyre sensors, rain
sensors, navigation, power steering, fuel injection ... the list is
endless and will continue to grow.
> Presumably it still costs exactly
> the same amount of money to actually manufacture these things so...?
At the beginning manufacturing costs are negligible, you're paying for
the development costs (maybe the car maker is in partnership with one
particular supplier to develop the technology). After several car
cycles (decades) eventually you'll get to the stage where there are no
further development costs - where you (as the car maker) have the choice
of 100 different suppliers all making the same part and selling it
barely above the manufacturing costs.
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On 04/05/2012 11:14 AM, scott wrote:
> It happens with everything in cars. Electric mirrors, tape players, CD
> players, MP3 capability, bluetooth, LCD display in instrument cluster,
> ABS, traction control, stability control, flat-tyre sensors, rain
> sensors, navigation, power steering, fuel injection ... the list is
> endless and will continue to grow.
And here I was thinking that they just make the same cars over and over
again...
> At the beginning manufacturing costs are negligible, you're paying for
> the development costs. After several car cycles
> (decades) eventually you'll get to the stage where there are no further
> development costs.
Cars actually advance noticeably in a 10-year period? Not, like, a
40-year period or something?
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> On 04/05/2012 11:14 AM, scott wrote:
>
>> It happens with everything in cars. Electric mirrors, tape players, CD
>> players, MP3 capability, bluetooth, LCD display in instrument cluster,
>> ABS, traction control, stability control, flat-tyre sensors, rain
>> sensors, navigation, power steering, fuel injection ... the list is
>> endless and will continue to grow.
>
> And here I was thinking that they just make the same cars over and over
> again...
>
>> At the beginning manufacturing costs are negligible, you're paying for
>> the development costs. After several car cycles
>> (decades) eventually you'll get to the stage where there are no further
>> development costs.
>
> Cars actually advance noticeably in a 10-year period? Not, like, a
> 40-year period or something?
Twenty years ago, in car CD players were almost unheard of. ABS braking
was reserved to luxury vehicles. Driver-side airbags were starting to
be more common. You could still buy a car with a carburetor.
Ten years ago, not all cars had CD players, passenger-side airbags were
now more common. Electronic fuel injection was now the norm. Most cars
now had ABS brakes, but it was still used by the marketing dept as a
selling point. Hybrid cars were a curiosity.
Today, most cars NO LONGER have CD players, all cars have 6 to 8 air
bags, GPS systems, keyless entry, same, better fuel efficiency, better
traction control, braking, automated parking, etc...
Car maker NEED to find new things to entice the consumers to buy a new
car every 3 or 4 year, or they'd be going out of business faster than
they already are.
--
/*Francois Labreque*/#local a=x+y;#local b=x+a;#local c=a+b;#macro P(F//
/* flabreque */L)polygon{5,F,F+z,L+z,L,F pigment{rgb 9}}#end union
/* @ */{P(0,a)P(a,b)P(b,c)P(2*a,2*b)P(2*b,b+c)P(b+c,<2,3>)
/* gmail.com */}camera{orthographic location<6,1.25,-6>look_at a }
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> And here I was thinking that they just make the same cars over and over
> again...
The worrying thing is that I don't know if you're being sarcastic or not :-)
> Cars actually advance noticeably in a 10-year period? Not, like, a
> 40-year period or something?
Well I guess if you don't notice things like dual-clutch transmissions,
better fuel economy, lower CO2 emissions, USB sockets, bluetooth,
navigation, keyless start/entry, HUDs, run-flat tyres etc then no, you
won't notice anything changed over the last 10 years.
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On 5/4/2012 1:16, Le_Forgeron wrote:
> It means that if you produced only one item at the end, that item costed
> 5 years of salary of many peoples, at least.
Cars and CPUs are both in the same range: About half the total end-user cost
over the lifetime of the design goes into the design, and half into the
manufacturing and distributing the rest.
Which is to say, when that new x64 CPU comes out, the first one costs half
of all the money they'll ever collect in selling them, and all the others
combined cost the other half.
That's why you see things like ARM cores, PCI boards, built-in devices
connected via USB, and so on. It tremendously reduces the cost of production.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
"Oh no! We're out of code juice!"
"Don't panic. There's beans and filters
in the cabinet."
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On 3-5-2012 10:46, Invisible wrote:
> On 03/05/2012 09:06 AM, scott wrote:
>>>> Pop quiz: You're 86 miles from home, you're in the shower in a public
>>>> changing room, when you suddenly remember that YOU DO NOT HAVE A
>>>> TOWEL. What do you do? O_O
>>>
>>> I put on my clothes.
>>
>> Then get in the car, turn on the fans, and drive for 86 miles.
>
> Screw fans, turn the air conditioning on! ;-)
>
Screw fans? are that metal fans with a very limited taste?
--
tip: do not run in an unknown place when it is too dark to see the
floor, unless you prefer to not use uppercase.
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On Fri, 04 May 2012 08:44:06 +0100, scott wrote:
>> Hmm, wet + cold = hypothermia.
>>
>> No thanks. :)
>
> In all cars I've been in you can use the air-con with heat, not just
> cool.
> In winter it is much more effective at demisting the windows if you the
> A/C turned on (along with heat), especially if the occupants are wet.
I grew up in Minnesota - so yes, I know about running the AC and the
heater to dry the air out to keep the windows fogging up.
I was being somewhat silly. :)
Jim
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