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Not living in the US, only seeing what's happening there from far away,
my notion may very well be really biased and limited, but I get the strong
impression that many Americans seem to live in some kind of social bubble
where they subconsciously think that they are the only people in the world
(or at least the only people with a modern western culture and society).
In other words, they have an extremely US-centric view of the world.
Three examples:
1) Many critics of the "occupy Wall Street" movement accuse the protesters
of opposing capitalism.
I don't understand this accusation at all. It seems to imply that the only
possible form of capitalism is the one which is enacted in the US, where
the government is largely lobbied by large corporations, where these
corporations (in large part thanks to this lobbying) can get away with
screwing up people, where basically everything is privatized (including
things like the healthcare system), where banks and other corporations whose
only goal is to make money with money (and which do not produce anything)
deliberately screwing up the economy by shady (and sometimes outright illegal)
tactics and for their own benefit at the cost of others is normal, and where
individuals have basically no rights over big corporations.
This kind of mentality completely ignores the fact that the US is not the
only capitalist country in the world. It might be unique in its particular
form of capitalism, but it's certainly not the only capitalist country.
Most other western countries have a form of capitalism that is much more
controlled by the government, where large corporations are not free to do
whatever they want, and it works just ok.
I get the feeling that these people seem to think, at some level, that
the US is the only "true" capitalist country in the world, and the rest is
just socialist countries or banana republics, and that eroding anything in
the current US capitalist system is going towards socialism and communism.
2) If you do a bit of searching, you will find tons of conspiracy theories
about how the FDA is shutting down, hiding and attacking alternative cures
for all kinds of diseases. Miracle cures for cancer seem to be the most
popular ones. You can find lengthy "documentaries" about this very subject.
These conspiracy theories are *so* US-centric that it gives me nausea.
Apparently to these people the FDA either controls the entire world, or
alternatively the US is the only country in the world where any kind of
medical research is performed (under the tight grip of the FDA, of course).
I don't remember any of these conspiracy theories trying to explain how
it's possible that there exists a miracle cure for cancer (or whatever),
yet no other country has started using it. Countries that have absolutely
nothing to do with the US and the FDA.
3) Many Christians in the US (at least in some parts of it) have
this conviction that atheism leads to complete immorality, anarchy,
every-man-for-himself attitudes, violence, crime and complete chaos.
This is one of the reasons why they vilify and discriminate against
atheists so strongly (way more than believers in other religions). They
are seen as absolutely immoral monsters and beasts who would immediately
go in a violent crime rampage if it were not for all the Christians keeping
law and order.
These people seem to be completely oblivious to the fact that there
are many countries where Christianity is not predominant. Moreover, there
are countries where *no* religion is predominant. For example in the northern
European countries something like 85% of people are secular, many of them
outspoken atheists. Similar numbers are true for most of Europe. While in
the US the atheist is the odd-man-out, the exception to the rule, the
reverse is true here.
Yet these countries have not fallen into chaos and anarchy, their societies
crumbling under the lack of morality, order and law. In fact, there are
statistically *less* crime in most European countries than there is in
the US (regardless of the type of crime). Yet these American Christians
seem either completely unaware of this, don't want to think about it,
or actively ignore or deny it.
--
- Warp
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On 15/10/2011 01:39 PM, Warp wrote:
> I get the strong
> impression that many Americans seem to live in some kind of social bubble
> where they subconsciously think that they are the only people in the world
> (or at least the only people with a modern western culture and society).
> In other words, they have an extremely US-centric view of the world.
In fairness, the USA is larger than all of Europe put together. If you
imagine each US state as being like an EU country, there's no /that/
much difference. How many Europeans are really aware of anything
happening outside Europe (and the USA)? Let's face it, there's Africa,
Asia, Australia, *South* America, and those are just the places that I
actually know the names of. Nobody talks about those much... and they're
not exactly small or insignificant.
What I /have/ noticed about the USA is that they tend to assert that
their way of life is the only /correct/ one. Like, the way they live is
the best way, and the rest of the world just hasn't learned how to be as
awesome as them yet. Whereas in Europe, each country has roughly similar
laws and so forth, but there are several areas of fairly drastic
difference. And then there's culture and so forth. And overall, nobody
seems to be sitting there saying "we're the best in Europe, and we pitty
all those other countries who haven't learned how to be like us yet".
Also: The USA is huge. I can't help feeling that somewhere within it,
there must be some intelligent people. And those people must feel really
embarrassed that they live in the same country as the morons who make
America look so bad to the rest of the world with depressing frequency...
(I remember when the London riots where happening. And then they started
happening all over the country. I felt ashemed to be British that day.)
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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On 15/10/2011 4:13 PM, Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> Also: The USA is huge. I can't help feeling that somewhere within it,
> there must be some intelligent people. And those people must feel really
> embarrassed that they live in the same country as the morons who make
> America look so bad to the rest of the world with depressing frequency...
You are right. It is the big mouthed ones who get the attention. Lots of
Americans do not live up to the stereotype that the news and Hollywood
portray. It is true though, they have their fair share of weirdos.
--
Regards
Stephen
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On 15/10/2011 04:26 PM, Stephen wrote:
> On 15/10/2011 4:13 PM, Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>> Also: The USA is huge. I can't help feeling that somewhere within it,
>> there must be some intelligent people. And those people must feel really
>> embarrassed that they live in the same country as the morons who make
>> America look so bad to the rest of the world with depressing frequency...
>
> You are right. It is the big mouthed ones who get the attention. Lots of
> Americans do not live up to the stereotype that the news and Hollywood
> portray. It is true though, they have their fair share of weirdos.
Every country has stupid and/or weird people in it. The USA seems to be
special in that it has particularly visible ones.
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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On 10/15/2011 5:39, Warp wrote:
> 1) Many critics of the "occupy Wall Street" movement accuse the protesters
> of opposing capitalism.
America has gotten sucked into (or dove into) several wars with countries
that were titularly not capitalist. If someone says something isn't
capitalist, they're simply trying to appeal to the emotions of the listeners
without actually making rational arguments.
As you have pointed out, the people who classify stuff so simplistically
aren't rational anyway, so it's what you hear on the news.
We also have people complaining that Obama has the wrong kind of birth
certificate and stupid shit like that. They're also very loud and irrational.
> I don't understand this accusation at all.
Because you're thinking it's part of a rational, logical argument, rather
than the financial equivalent of screaming "you're not patriotic!!1!"
> 2) If you do a bit of searching, you will find tons of conspiracy theories
> about how the FDA is shutting down, hiding and attacking alternative cures
> for all kinds of diseases.
Again, people who fall for this are the same people who aren't too bright.
They also think there's a car engine that runs on water that the oil
companies are buying the patents to and hiding, not even realizing that if
it's patented it's already public knowledge.
You're hearing loud stupid people that only other loud stupid people take
seriously. And yes, most of our loud stupid people are very parochial,
because travel tends to make you less stupid.
> These people seem to be completely oblivious to the fact that there
> are many countries where Christianity is not predominant.
But those countries are also evil! :-)
> Yet these countries have not fallen into chaos and anarchy, their societies
> crumbling under the lack of morality, order and law.
Sure they are. They have all that awful legalized prostitution and drugs,
and anyway God hates them, and that's good enough. ;-)
> In fact, there are
> statistically *less* crime in most European countries than there is in
> the US (regardless of the type of crime).
And we have far fewer atheists in jail than christians, even per capita.
You're using logic to try to debunk religion. :-)
> Yet these American Christians
> seem either completely unaware of this, don't want to think about it,
> or actively ignore or deny it.
Yes. It would challenge their world view, which can't really afford to be
challenged.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
How come I never get only one kudo?
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On 15/10/2011 5:40 PM, Darren New wrote:
> Because you're thinking it's part of a rational, logical argument,
> rather than the financial equivalent of screaming "you're not
> patriotic!!1!"
>
That reminds me. I was travelling home from the States at the beginning
of July. One of our security guards said, “At least you will get to
spend the holiday at home.” I had to remind him that we don’t actually
celebrate America’s Independence Day in Britain,
>
> Again, people who fall for this are the same people who aren't too
> bright. They also think there's a car engine that runs on water that the
> oil companies are buying the patents to and hiding, not even realizing
> that if it's patented it's already public knowledge.
There is/was a car engine that runs on water. The principle was that
water was sprayed into the cylinder just after the spark to increase the
efficiency of the combustion force. Why it was not developed I can’t
say. (Where is Scott when you need him?)
--
Regards
Stephen
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On 15/10/2011 05:54 PM, Stephen wrote:
> I had to remind him that we don’t actually
> celebrate America’s Independence Day in Britain,
Strange, that...
> There is/was a car engine that runs on water. The principle was that
> water was sprayed into the cylinder just after the spark to increase the
> efficiency of the combustion force.
That's not a car "running on water", any more than a normal car that
uses water to reduce engine temperature is "running on water".
> Why it was not developed I can’t say. (Where is Scott when you need him?)
Scotty: I cannae doit, captin! I just DON'T... HAVE... the POWER!
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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On 15/10/2011 05:40 PM, Darren New wrote:
> We also have people complaining that Obama has the wrong kind of birth
> certificate and stupid shit like that. They're also very loud and
> irrational.
"My dad was in the army for a time. He nearly ended up being president
of America! He was the unit's undertaker; they used to call him the
barrack embalmer." *rimshot*
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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On 15-10-2011 17:13, Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> On 15/10/2011 01:39 PM, Warp wrote:
>> I get the strong
>> impression that many Americans seem to live in some kind of social bubble
>> where they subconsciously think that they are the only people in the
>> world
>> (or at least the only people with a modern western culture and society).
>> In other words, they have an extremely US-centric view of the world.
>
> In fairness, the USA is larger than all of Europe put together. If you
> imagine each US state as being like an EU country, there's no /that/
> much difference. How many Europeans are really aware of anything
> happening outside Europe (and the USA)? Let's face it, there's Africa,
> Asia, Australia, *South* America, and those are just the places that I
> actually know the names of. Nobody talks about those much... and they're
> not exactly small or insignificant.
I have been in South America and in Africa this year, next year I will
be in Asia and in general I am following as much as I can what happens
there and pretty much everywhere. Both politically and with respect to
health care. So what is your point?
Probably that I am a white raven.
I don't think so.
--
Apparently you can afford your own dictator for less than 10 cents per
citizen per day.
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On 15-10-2011 18:40, Darren New wrote:
> Sure they are. They have all that awful legalized prostitution and
> drugs, and anyway God hates them, and that's good enough. ;-)
So that is why we had to build our country by ourselves? God didn't
*want* to.
--
Apparently you can afford your own dictator for less than 10 cents per
citizen per day.
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