On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 09:03:53 +0100, Invisible wrote:

> On 06/10/2011 02:10 AM, Darren New wrote:
>> On 10/5/2011 9:42, andrel wrote:
>>> Ever noticed that the keyboard has a calculator side pad?
>>
>> Back when spreadsheets were the killer app, people were annoyed that
>> the number keys and the arrow keys were the same keys. So now we have
>> two sets of number keys *and* two sets of arrow keys.
> 
> I'm still trying to figure out how to make it permanently impossible to
> ever turn numlock off under any circumstances. Every single ****ing time
> I use Linux, I seem to have to turn numlock back on every 20 seconds. I
> DO NOT EVER WANT IT TO TURN OFF!!! >_<

It never changes state here for me automatically.

Jim

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On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 09:02:33 +0100, Invisible wrote:

>>> Ever noticed that the keyboard has a calculator side pad?
>>
>> Not on my laptop.
> 
> My new laptop does though. ;-)

I've seen a few laptops that have them, but the vast majority (especially 
if you have a 'standard' (as opposed to 'wide') screen.

>> And compared to a calculator, the numeric keypad's numbers are reversed
>> (1-3 at the bottom rather than at the top).
> 
>  From what I've seen, both layouts are equally common.

Not on a computer - at least not that I've ever seen.  On a calculator, 
that may be true - I've only got 2 or 3 actual calculators here.

But I did learn to do 10-key on a cash register, and the keys there (and 
on touch-tone phones and most calculators) are the other way round.

Jim

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On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 09:06:40 +0100, Invisible wrote:

>>> Well, at least you don't have to worry about it lagging out because
>>> the scheduled antivirus scan just kicked in... Even so, there's
>>> something deeply broken about purchasing a powerful computational
>>> device and then purchasing another one to do the actual math for you.
>>
>> Sometimes a simpler tool is a better tool. :)
> 
> Dude, that's like saying that sometimes a 1/4 lb planishing hammer is
> better than a 6 lb sledgehammer!
> 
> Oh, wait...

Bingo! ;)

Jim

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>>>> Ever noticed that the keyboard has a calculator side pad?
>>>
>>> Not on my laptop.
>>
>> My new laptop does though. ;-)
>
> I've seen a few laptops that have them, but the vast majority (especially
> if you have a 'standard' (as opposed to 'wide') screen.

Uh... I /think/ I understand what you wrote...

>>    From what I've seen, both layouts are equally common.
>
> Not on a computer - at least not that I've ever seen.  On a calculator,
> that may be true - I've only got 2 or 3 actual calculators here.

Yeah, the whole keyboard layout on an IBM PC is pretty much standard. I 
meant more generally on devices with 10-digit input. Telephones, 
calculators, combination locks, etc.

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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>> I'm still trying to figure out how to make it permanently impossible to
>> ever turn numlock off under any circumstances. Every single ****ing time
>> I use Linux, I seem to have to turn numlock back on every 20 seconds. I
>> DO NOT EVER WANT IT TO TURN OFF!!!>_<
>
> It never changes state here for me automatically.

Interesting. Every time I boot the PC, it turns off. Every time I log in 
to the shell, it turns off. Every time I start X, it turns off. Every 
time I stop X, it turns off. Every time I log out of the shell, it turns 
off. It /constantly/ turns off.

Wait for the PC to boot up, turn on numlock, log in, turn numlock back 
on, start X, turn numlock back on /again/. Teach the X configuration. 
Stop X. Turn numlock back on. Start KDM. Turn numlock back on. Log in as 
a user. Turn numlock on again. See the pattern here?

I did once see somebody from the local LUG explain how to keep numlock 
permanently enabled in the shell, but it didn't seem to affect X.

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 13:18:55 -0400, Alain wrote:

>> Sure, there are benefits.  I'd have to be stupid not to know *that*.
>>
>> Jim
> 
> I've never ever seen any calculator with the 1 2 3 keys at the top.
> Phones, yes, always, calculators, never.

*headdesk*

You're right - I'm wrong.  That's what I get for not having a calculator 
in front of me. ;)

Jim

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On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 18:36:04 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:

>>>>> Ever noticed that the keyboard has a calculator side pad?
>>>>
>>>> Not on my laptop.
>>>
>>> My new laptop does though. ;-)
>>
>> I've seen a few laptops that have them, but the vast majority
>> (especially if you have a 'standard' (as opposed to 'wide') screen.
> 
> Uh... I /think/ I understand what you wrote...

The laptops that have them tend to be widescreen laptops, as that gives 
more room for an extended keyboard.

>>>    From what I've seen, both layouts are equally common.
>>
>> Not on a computer - at least not that I've ever seen.  On a calculator,
>> that may be true - I've only got 2 or 3 actual calculators here.
> 
> Yeah, the whole keyboard layout on an IBM PC is pretty much standard. I
> meant more generally on devices with 10-digit input. Telephones,
> calculators, combination locks, etc.

Yes, those do tend to vary.

Jim

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On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 18:38:22 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:

>>> I'm still trying to figure out how to make it permanently impossible
>>> to ever turn numlock off under any circumstances. Every single ****ing
>>> time I use Linux, I seem to have to turn numlock back on every 20
>>> seconds. I DO NOT EVER WANT IT TO TURN OFF!!!>_<
>>
>> It never changes state here for me automatically.
> 
> Interesting. Every time I boot the PC, it turns off. Every time I log in
> to the shell, it turns off. Every time I start X, it turns off. Every
> time I stop X, it turns off. Every time I log out of the shell, it turns
> off. It /constantly/ turns off.

Mine never turns off on its own.  Just switched between several VTs and 
my X session, the state didn't change at all.

Now in YaST (openSUSE here, so it'll be somewhere else in other distros), 
under the system keyboard, there is a setting for numlock state.  Mine's 
set to use the BIOS settings.  Perhaps your setting is set to turn it on/
off or to leave it untouched.  That might get you fixed for it.

> Wait for the PC to boot up, turn on numlock, log in, turn numlock back
> on, start X, turn numlock back on /again/. Teach the X configuration.
> Stop X. Turn numlock back on. Start KDM. Turn numlock back on. Log in as
> a user. Turn numlock on again. See the pattern here?
> 
> I did once see somebody from the local LUG explain how to keep numlock
> permanently enabled in the shell, but it didn't seem to affect X.

"in the shell" - do you mean on a VT?  Or is it changing when you open a 
term window in X?

Jim

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On 06/10/2011 6:38 PM, Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> Interesting. Every time I boot the PC, it turns off.

IIRC there should be a setting in the BIOS to turn it on at start up.

-- 
Regards
     Stephen

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On 06/10/2011 07:05 PM, Stephen wrote:
> On 06/10/2011 6:38 PM, Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>> Interesting. Every time I boot the PC, it turns off.
>
> IIRC there should be a setting in the BIOS to turn it on at start up.

There is. And when the BIOS runs, numlock is on. Once the Linux kernel 
finishes loading, it turns off. (And if you press the key to turn it 
back on, it stays on until you log into something...)

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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