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Am 16.09.2011 19:14, schrieb Francois Labreque:
> Le 2011-09-15 22:10, Darren New a écrit :
>> On 9/15/2011 18:19, Francois Labreque wrote:
>>> Heathen! Linux machines do not need to be rebooted. Ever.
>>
>> I'm pretty sure you're wrong on that one.
>>
> A previous version of that post had a smiley at the end. I guess it got
> lost during the vetting process.
Id didn't get lost - it just hid between the lines. I swear I can hear
it chuckling.
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On Fri, 16 Sep 2011 13:22:55 -0700, Darren New wrote:
> On 9/16/2011 12:57, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> You specified servers and desktops - not appliance devices.
>
> No I didn't. I was responding to someone else's comment of
>
> >> Heathen! Linux machines do not need to be rebooted. Ever.
>
> That didn't say "Linux machines with a full development environment
> installed and to which you have root access never have to be rebooted."
> That's my point here. :-)
That's fair. You wrote your reply to a message I wrote, so clearly I
thought you were responding to what I said.
>> I've never had a need to, so I don't know. Presumably you could stop a
>> service or unload/reload a driver, or drop to single user mode and then
>> go back to the default runlevel.
>
> Cool. How do I drop to single-user mode on my cell phone?
Probably depends on the phone. Like I said, I've never needed to find
out, so I don't know.
> Again, you're making assumptions that the linux in your phone (or your
> cable box or your credit card terminal) is like the linux in your
> desktop or server machine.
Linux is a kernel. I'm not making assumptions about the kernel.
Jim
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On 9/16/2011 21:36, Jim Henderson wrote:
> That's fair. You wrote your reply to a message I wrote, so clearly I
> thought you were responding to what I said.
I still never specified servers at all, and I only mentioned desktops in a
disclaimer. :-)
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
How come I never get only one kudo?
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On 9/16/2011 21:36, Jim Henderson wrote:
> Linux is a kernel. I'm not making assumptions about the kernel.
Incidentally, in the real world, nobody cares about the kernel. If you have
10,000 airline agents hitting your database from all around the world, and
your database server takes 10 minutes to restart and recache its indexes
after you upgrade the code, nobody really cares if the kernel survived the
upgrade or not. :-) That's what always amuses me about such discussions.
Indeed, people don't really even care if it was the database down or the
router provided by your ISP. A backhoe outside your door is going to screw
up your uptime stats as much as a kernel upgrade will.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
How come I never get only one kudo?
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On Sat, 17 Sep 2011 07:13:26 -0700, Darren New wrote:
> On 9/16/2011 21:36, Jim Henderson wrote:
> > Linux is a kernel. I'm not making assumptions about the kernel.
>
> Incidentally, in the real world, nobody cares about the kernel. If you
> have 10,000 airline agents hitting your database from all around the
> world, and your database server takes 10 minutes to restart and recache
> its indexes after you upgrade the code, nobody really cares if the
> kernel survived the upgrade or not. :-) That's what always amuses me
> about such discussions.
Certainly - and the question of whether it has to be rebooted or not is
somewhat mooted by that point. I can get a lot of things to restart
properly by just going to single user mode and back to runlevel 3 or 5,
but if services are offline, that's still downtime.
Server uptime isn't a great measure of availability. Service uptime is
more meaningful.
Just like the neverending debate about which Linux desktop environment is
the "best". I've used pretty much all of them, and have come to the
conclusion that the DE is pretty irrelevant - if I am using a computer,
I'm using it for the apps, not the DE. If I'm focused on the DE so much
that I "hate" KDE or GNOME or LXDE or whatever - then I'm obviously not
using the computer as a tool to get actual work done.
> Indeed, people don't really even care if it was the database down or the
> router provided by your ISP. A backhoe outside your door is going to
> screw up your uptime stats as much as a kernel upgrade will.
Absolutely.
Jim
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On Fri, 16 Sep 2011 22:37:00 -0700, Darren New wrote:
> On 9/16/2011 21:36, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> That's fair. You wrote your reply to a message I wrote, so clearly I
>> thought you were responding to what I said.
>
> I still never specified servers at all, and I only mentioned desktops in
> a disclaimer. :-)
"And I'd argue that if you have a server whose *only* job is being a web
server, then restarting the web server after an upgrade is essentially
the same as a reboot, except faster."
That seems to be the source of the misunderstanding, because you did talk
about servers there.
Jim
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On 9/17/2011 10:32, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Sep 2011 22:37:00 -0700, Darren New wrote:
>
>> On 9/16/2011 21:36, Jim Henderson wrote:
>>> That's fair. You wrote your reply to a message I wrote, so clearly I
>>> thought you were responding to what I said.
>>
>> I still never specified servers at all, and I only mentioned desktops in
>> a disclaimer. :-)
>
> "And I'd argue that if you have a server whose *only* job is being a web
> server, then restarting the web server after an upgrade is essentially
> the same as a reboot, except faster."
>
> That seems to be the source of the misunderstanding, because you did talk
> about servers there.
Fair enough. Plus that statement applies to any OS, not just Linux. :-)
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
How come I never get only one kudo?
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On 9/17/2011 10:31, Jim Henderson wrote:
> that I "hate" KDE or GNOME or LXDE or whatever - then I'm obviously not
> using the computer as a tool to get actual work done.
Heh heh heh. I'm definitely going to steal that.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
How come I never get only one kudo?
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On Sun, 18 Sep 2011 09:14:28 -0700, Darren New wrote:
> On 9/17/2011 10:32, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> On Fri, 16 Sep 2011 22:37:00 -0700, Darren New wrote:
>>
>>> On 9/16/2011 21:36, Jim Henderson wrote:
>>>> That's fair. You wrote your reply to a message I wrote, so clearly I
>>>> thought you were responding to what I said.
>>>
>>> I still never specified servers at all, and I only mentioned desktops
>>> in a disclaimer. :-)
>>
>> "And I'd argue that if you have a server whose *only* job is being a
>> web server, then restarting the web server after an upgrade is
>> essentially the same as a reboot, except faster."
>>
>> That seems to be the source of the misunderstanding, because you did
>> talk about servers there.
>
> Fair enough. Plus that statement applies to any OS, not just Linux. :-)
That's certainly true.
Jim
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On Sun, 18 Sep 2011 09:15:21 -0700, Darren New wrote:
> On 9/17/2011 10:31, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> that I "hate" KDE or GNOME or LXDE or whatever - then I'm obviously not
>> using the computer as a tool to get actual work done.
>
> Heh heh heh. I'm definitely going to steal that.
Feel free. :)
Jim
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