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On 7/12/2011 23:57, Warp wrote:
> but in practice they have lost their status as separate independent
> letters.
I'm not surprised. I learned this in high school back in the early 70's. :-)
> (Possibly the popularization of keyboards has helped this, although
> I think this trend started earlier.)
I don't think it's keyboards as much as it is collation by computers.
For example, it used to be that you'd sort Orwell's 1984 under the O's,
because it starts with "One". Nowadays, libraries have a separate section
for books that start with digits, because nobody wants to support
traditional collation in a computer.
I suspect the same is true of Spanish. Who really wants to sort "ll" after
"lz"? Words starting with "ch" should come between "cg" and "ci", right?
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
"Coding without comments is like
driving without turn signals."
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On 7/13/2011 0:54, Invisible wrote:
>>> The most logical aspect of English is the pronounciation.
>>
>> It's also the only language I know where the accent (as in stress)
>> moving from syllable to syllable changes the parts of speech of the word.
>
> There's an urban myth that in Chinese, the pitch of the word dictates which
> word it is...
The same sound has up to four different tones possible. That doesn't make it
unambiguous, tho. For each sound+tone, there's still dozens of meanings you
need to disambiguate, even if it's written.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
"Coding without comments is like
driving without turn signals."
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On 7/13/2011 9:31, Darren New wrote:
> I don't think it's keyboards as much as it is collation by computers.
Kind of related, but think about how Chinese dictionaries get sorted, given
that each word is one character and there are tens of thousands of
characters in the language, since Andrew brought up chinese to start with.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
"Coding without comments is like
driving without turn signals."
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Invisible escreveu:
>> Take the lyrics of almost any song, remove the music and you get a poem.
>
> Yes. And typically not a very good one.
precisely, yes. Lyrics is typically a bad poem relying on bad music and
sugared chorus to try to make any impact at all.
That sad, the very name lyrics reminds of the old musical instrument --
the lyra, with which poets sang their muse-induced poetry.
--
a game sig: http://tinyurl.com/d3rxz9
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Orchid XP v8 escreveu:
>>> Lyrics can be in an unintelligible language and still be delightful.
>>
>> And poetry can't?
>
> I can only say this: I've yet to find any poetry that evokes anything
> other than boredom. This does not preclude the possibility of good
> poetry existing; it just makes me rather disinclined to search for it.
lucky you that I've done it already:
http://news.povray.org/povray.off-topic/thread/%3C4e0cf0cb%241%40news.povray.org%3E/?mtop=363745&moff=10
--
a game sig: http://tinyurl.com/d3rxz9
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On 13-7-2011 18:26, Darren New wrote:
> On 7/13/2011 0:57, Invisible wrote:
>>> Take the lyrics of almost any song, remove the music and you get a poem.
>>
>> Yes. And typically not a very good one.
>>
>> (If you actually sit down and think about it, it's surprising how many
>> songs
>> have lyrics which don't actually /make sense/ either.)
>
> My favorite: Yes' "Roundabout"
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQKqrC9cT_s
What about Leonard Cohen? I often find it very hard to make sense of his
lyrics. He started out as a poet and it shows. Although often a single
sentence does not make sense in it's context, the whole still conveys a
feeling. That and that he had no choice but to be born with a golden
voice makes it interesting to listen to him.
On a related topic, I am sort of glad his manager ran away with the money.
--
Apparently you can afford your own dictator for less than 10 cents per
citizen per day.
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Invisible escreveu:
> On 13/07/2011 01:33 AM, Alain wrote:
>
>> Anyway, lyrics ARE poetry! If you add music to any poem, it becomes a
>> song.
>
> Interesting fact: Take Growltiger's Last Stand, by T. S. Elliot. It's
> fairly boring. Get Andrew Lloyd Webber to set it to music, and suddenly
> it's an epic masterpiece.
funny poetry not really my thing, much worse travestite in bad music.
--
a game sig: http://tinyurl.com/d3rxz9
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On Wed, 13 Jul 2011 15:02:46 -0300, nemesis wrote:
> Invisible escreveu:
>> On 13/07/2011 01:33 AM, Alain wrote:
>>
>>> Anyway, lyrics ARE poetry! If you add music to any poem, it becomes a
>>> song.
>>
>> Interesting fact: Take Growltiger's Last Stand, by T. S. Elliot. It's
>> fairly boring. Get Andrew Lloyd Webber to set it to music, and suddenly
>> it's an epic masterpiece.
>
> funny poetry not really my thing, much worse travestite in bad music.
I was going to say, "Andrew Lloyd Webber" and "epic masterpiece" create a
fair amount of cognitive dissonance for me - those two things don't
really belong in the same sentence, IMNSHO.
Jim
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On 13/07/2011 07:54 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
> I was going to say, "Andrew Lloyd Webber" and "epic masterpiece" create a
> fair amount of cognitive dissonance for me - those two things don't
> really belong in the same sentence, IMNSHO.
Yeah, weirdly a couple of people have voiced this incomprehensible
opinion...
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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>> There's an urban myth that in Chinese, the pitch of the word dictates
>> which word it is...
>
> The same sound has up to four different tones possible. That doesn't
> make it unambiguous, tho. For each sound+tone, there's still dozens of
> meanings you need to disambiguate, even if it's written.
The writing system has over eight million characters, and it's *still*
ambiguous?
What the hell do Chinese people *say* to each other?! o_O
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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