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From: Darren New
Subject: Re: Crab Canon
Date: 1 Jul 2011 14:59:43
Message: <4e0e191f$1@news.povray.org>
On 7/1/2011 10:10, nemesis wrote:
> I'm still to read this classic.  Does it include many illustrations and graphs?

Not that I recall.  Altho there is interesting typography in various places.

> oh, bummer.  No ebook edition anywhere yet...

Not legally, at least.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   "Coding without comments is like
    driving without turn signals."


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From: nemesis
Subject: Re: Crab Canon
Date: 1 Jul 2011 15:06:49
Message: <4e0e1ac9@news.povray.org>
Darren New escreveu:
> On 7/1/2011 10:10, nemesis wrote:
>> I'm still to read this classic.  Does it include many illustrations 
>> and graphs?
> 
> Not that I recall.  Altho there is interesting typography in various 
> places.
> 
>> oh, bummer.  No ebook edition anywhere yet...
> 
> Not legally, at least.

there are PDF's, but fixed layout is horrible on small screen.  Besides, 
I feel the need to tip the author.

-- 
a game sig: http://tinyurl.com/d3rxz9


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From: nemesis
Subject: Re: Crab Canon
Date: 1 Jul 2011 15:08:14
Message: <4e0e1b1e$1@news.povray.org>
Invisible escreveu:
> This text is a pristine example of why I stopped reading GEB. I got the 
> book hoping to learn something new and interesting. What I got instead 
> was tedious riddles. Lots of them.

you really don't enjoy art, do you?  All art is useless and still I 
wouldn't want to live without it...

-- 
a game sig: http://tinyurl.com/d3rxz9


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From: Orchid XP v8
Subject: Re: Crab Canon
Date: 1 Jul 2011 18:14:54
Message: <4e0e46de$1@news.povray.org>
On 01/07/2011 08:08 PM, nemesis wrote:

> you really don't enjoy art, do you?

Depends on what you call "art".

If by "art" you mean something like a skillful painter constructing a 
giant painting of an epic vista, then yeah. I can appreciate that.

If by "art" you mean somebody putting a pile of bricks in a corner and 
selling it for 4.8 million USD because it's now "art"... no, I really 
don't enjoy art at all.

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*


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From: Chambers
Subject: Re: Crab Canon
Date: 2 Jul 2011 15:59:33
Message: <4e0f78a5@news.povray.org>
"Invisible"  wrote in message news:4e0da580$1@news.povray.org...
So far, that's about the only moderately interesting thing I've managed
to get from GEB.


A lot of it is based quite heavily on the subject of recursion, and walks 
you through the development of a typographical number / logic system.  If 
you don't enjoy math, you probably won't enjoy the book.

...Chambers


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From: Darren New
Subject: Re: Crab Canon
Date: 2 Jul 2011 16:27:56
Message: <4e0f7f4c@news.povray.org>
On 7/2/2011 12:55, Chambers wrote:
> A lot of it is based quite heavily on the subject of recursion,

The whole first volume, actually.


-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   "Coding without comments is like
    driving without turn signals."


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From: nemesis
Subject: Re: Crab Canon
Date: 2 Jul 2011 16:30:01
Message: <web.4e0f7f8146738ec59a1bcfb90@news.povray.org>
Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> On 01/07/2011 08:08 PM, nemesis wrote:
>
> > you really don't enjoy art, do you?
>
> Depends on what you call "art".
>
> If by "art" you mean something like a skillful painter constructing a
> giant painting of an epic vista, then yeah. I can appreciate that.
>
> If by "art" you mean somebody putting a pile of bricks in a corner and
> selling it for 4.8 million USD because it's now "art"... no, I really
> don't enjoy art at all.
>
> --
> http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
> http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Same for me.  Now what about recursive, self-mirroring stories and music?  Is
that not good art too?  Moreover, good art asking for the audience intellects to
join in, rather than passively contemplate?

sometimes, I fear you enjoy more the thrill of your hands running and jumping
all over the organ keyboard than the sounds thus produced...


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From: Orchid XP v8
Subject: Re: Crab Canon
Date: 2 Jul 2011 17:25:56
Message: <4e0f8ce4$1@news.povray.org>
>> Depends on what you call "art".
>>
>> If by "art" you mean something like a skillful painter constructing a
>> giant painting of an epic vista, then yeah. I can appreciate that.
>>
>> If by "art" you mean somebody putting a pile of bricks in a corner and
>> selling it for 4.8 million USD because it's now "art"... no, I really
>> don't enjoy art at all.
>
> Same for me.  Now what about recursive, self-mirroring stories and music?  Is
> that not good art too?  Moreover, good art asking for the audience intellects to
> join in, rather than passively contemplate?
>
> sometimes, I fear you enjoy more the thrill of your hands running and jumping
> all over the organ keyboard than the sounds thus produced...

Now, see, music that does something technically impressive is just fine 
with me - so long as it's still *musical*. The thing I like about Bach 
is that his music has all this complex structure to it, but at the same 
time it's also /enjoyable/ to listen to. It's not just a theoretical 
exercuse. It *works* as music too.

PS. I hate peotry. I've never yet found any that wasn't utterly tedious.

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*


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From: nemesis
Subject: Re: Crab Canon
Date: 4 Jul 2011 01:20:07
Message: <web.4e114cd046738ec5d98494b60@news.povray.org>
Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> PS. I hate peotry. I've never yet found any that wasn't utterly tedious.

Poetry is not only the highest form of literature:  it's also the most
math-and-music-like.  You're quite a weenie math geek. :p

well, get prepared for a loooong tedious monday morning.  Carpe Diem!


A Poison Tree - William Blake

I was angry with my friend;
I told my wrath, my wrath did end.
I was angry with my foe:
I told it not, my wrath did grow.

And I waterd it in fears,
Night and morning with my tears:
And I sunned it with smiles,
And with soft deceitful wiles.

And it grew both day and night,
Till it bore an apple bright.
And my foe beheld it shine,
And he knew that it was mine.

And into my garden stole
When the night had veiled the pole;
In the morning glad I see,
My foe outstretchd beneath the tree.



Hope is the thing with feathers (254) - Emily Dickinson

Hope is the thing with feathers
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all,

And sweetest in the gale is heard;
And sore must be the storm
That could abash the little bird
That kept so many warm.

I've heard it in the chillest land,
And on the strangest sea;
Yet, never, in extremity,
It asked a crumb of me.



Fire and Ice - Robert Frost

Some say the world will end in fire;
Some say in ice.
From what I've tasted of desire
I hold with those who favor fire.
But if it had to perish twice,
I think I know enough of hate
To say that for destruction ice
Is also great
And would suffice.



some riddles from "The Hobbit" - J.R.R. Tolkien

This thing all things devours:
Birds, beasts, trees, flowers;
Gnaws iron, bites steel;
Grinds hard stones to meal;
Slays king, ruins town,
And beats high mountain down.

What has roots as nobody sees,
Is taller than trees
Up, up it goes,
And yet never grows?

Alive without breath,
As cold as death;
Never thirsty, ever drinking,
All in mail never clinking

It cannot be seen, cannot be felt,
Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt.
It lies behind stars and under hills,
And empty holes it fills.
It comes first and follows after,
Ends life, kills laughter.

Voiceless it cries,
Wingless flutters,
Toothless bites,
Mouthless mutters.


answers for the weak:  time, mountain, fish, dark, wind



The More Loving One - W. H. Auden

Looking up at the stars, I know quite well
That, for all they care, I can go to hell,
But on earth indifference is the least
We have to dread from man or beast.

How should we like it were stars to burn
With a passion for us we could not return?
If equal affection cannot be,
Let the more loving one be me.

Admirer as I think I am
Of stars that do not give a damn,
I cannot, now I see them, say
I missed one terribly all day.

Were all stars to disappear or die,
I should learn to look at an empty sky
And feel its total dark sublime,
Though this might take me a little time.



A Psalm of Life - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

What the Heart of the Young Man Said to the Psalmist

Tell me not, in mournful numbers,
   "Life is but an empty dream!"
For the soul is dead that slumbers,
   And things are not what they seem.

Life is real! Life is earnest!
   And the grave is not its goal;
"Dust thou art, to dust returnest,"
   Was not spoken of the soul.

Not enjoyment, and not sorrow,
   Is our destined end or way;
But to act, that each to-morrow
   Finds us farther than to-day.

Art is long, and Time is fleeting,
   And our hearts, though stout and brave,
Still, like muffled drums, are beating
   Funeral marches to the grave.

In the world's broad field of battle,
   In the bivouac of Life,
Be not like dumb, driven cattle!
   Be a hero in the strife!

Trust no Future, howe'er pleasant!
   Let the dead Past bury its dead!
Act,--act in the living Present!
   Heart within, and God o'erhead!

Lives of great men all remind us
   We can make our lives sublime,
And, departing, leave behind us
   Footprints on the sands of time;

Footprints, that perhaps another,
   Sailing o'er life's solemn main,
A forlorn and shipwrecked brother,
   Seeing, shall take heart again.

Let us, then, be up and doing,
   With a heart for any fate;
Still achieving, still pursuing
   Learn to labor and to wait.



Love's Secret - William Blake

Never seek to tell thy love,
  Love that never told can be;
For the gentle wind doth move
  Silently, invisibly.

I told my love, I told my love,
  I told her all my heart,
Trembling, cold, in ghastly fears.
  Ah! she did depart!

Soon after she was gone from me,
  A traveller came by,
Silently, invisibly:
  He took her with a sigh.



The Road Not Taken - Robert Frost

Two roads diverged in a yellow wood,
And sorry I could not travel both
And be one traveler, long I stood
And looked down one as far as I could
To where it bent in the undergrowth;

Then took the other, as just as fair,
And having perhaps the better claim,
Because it was grassy and wanted wear;
Though as for that the passing there
Had worn them really about the same,


And both that morning equally lay
In leaves no step had trodden black.
Oh, I kept the first for another day!
Yet knowing how way leads on to way,
I doubted if I should ever come back.

I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I--
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.



The Soul's Expression - Elizabeth Barrett Browning

With stammering lips and insufficient sound
I strive and struggle to deliver right
That music of my nature, day and night
With dream and thought and feeling interwound
And only answering all the senses round
With octaves of a mystic depth and height
Which step out grandly to the infinite
From the dark edges of the sensual ground.
This song of soul I struggle to outbear
Through portals of the sense, sublime and whole,
And utter all myself into the air:

Breaks its own cloud, my flesh would perish there,
Before that dread apocalypse of soul.



Music, when soft voices die - Percy Bysshe Shelley

Music, when soft voices die,
Vibrates in the memory,
Odours, when sweet violets sicken,
Live within the sense they quicken.

Rose leaves, when the rose is dead,
Are heaped for the beloved's bed;
And so thy thoughts, when thou art gone,
Love itself shall slumber on.



Sonnet 55 - William Shakespeare

Not marble nor the gilded monuments
Of princes shall outlive this powerful rhyme;
But you shall shine more bright in these contents
Than unswept stone, besmear'd with sluttish time.
When wasteful war shall statues overturn,
And broils root out the work of masonry,
Nor Mars his sword nor war's quick fire shall burn
The living record of your memory.
'Gainst death and all-oblivious enmity
Shall you pace forth; your praise shall still find room,
Even in the eyes of all posterity
That wear this world out to the ending doom.
    So, till the judgment that yourself arise,
    You live in this, and dwell in lovers' eyes.



O Captain! my Captain! - Walt Whitman

    O Captain! my Captain! our fearful trip is done;
    The ship has weathered every rack, the prize we sought is won;
    The port is near, the bells I hear, the people all exulting,
    While follow eyes the steady keel, the vessel grim and daring:

        But O heart! heart! heart!
        O the bleeding drops of red,
        Where on the deck my Captain lies,
        Fallen cold and dead.

    O Captain! my Captain! rise up and hear the bells;


    For you they call, the swaying mass, their eager faces turning;

        Here Captain! dear father!
        This arm beneath your head;
        It is some dream that on the deck,



    My Captain does not answer, his lips are pale and still;
    My father does not feel my arm, he has no pulse nor will;
    The ship is anchored safe and sound, its voyage closed and done;
    From fearful trip, the victor ship, comes in with object won;

        Exult, O shores, and ring, O bells!
        But I, with mournful tread,
        Walk the deck my Captain lies,

            Fallen cold and dead.



The Raven - Edgar Allan Poe

Once upon a midnight dreary, while I pondered, weak and weary,
Over many a quaint and curious volume of forgotten lore--
While I nodded, nearly napping, suddenly there came a tapping,
As of some one gently rapping, rapping at my chamber door--
"'Tis some visitor," I muttered, "tapping at my chamber door--
               Only this and nothing more."

Ah, distinctly I remember it was in the bleak December;
And each separate dying ember wrought its ghost upon the floor.
Eagerly I wished the morrow;--vainly I had sought to borrow
From my books surcease of sorrow--sorrow for the lost Lenore--
For the rare and radiant maiden whom the angels name Lenore--
               Nameless here for evermore.

And the silken, sad, uncertain rustling of each purple curtain
Thrilled me--filled me with fantastic terrors never felt before;
So that now, to still the beating of my heart, I stood repeating,
"'Tis some visitor entreating entrance at my chamber door--
Some late visitor entreating entrance at my chamber door;--
               This it is and nothing more."

Presently my soul grew stronger; hesitating then no longer,
"Sir," said I, "or Madam, truly your forgiveness I implore;
But the fact is I was napping, and so gently you came rapping,
And so faintly you came tapping, tapping at my chamber door,
That I scarce was sure I heard you"--here I opened wide the door;----
               Darkness there and nothing more.

Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there wondering, fearing,
Doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before;
But the silence was unbroken, and the stillness gave no token,
And the only word there spoken was the whispered word, "Lenore?"
This I whispered, and an echo murmured back the word, "Lenore!"--
               Merely this and nothing more.

Back into the chamber turning, all my soul within me burning,
Soon again I heard a tapping somewhat louder than before.
"Surely," said I, "surely that is something at my window lattice;
Let me see, then, what thereat is, and this mystery explore--
Let my heart be still a moment and this mystery explore;--
               'Tis the wind and nothing more!"

Open here I flung the shutter, when, with many a flirt and flutter,
In there stepped a stately Raven of the saintly days of yore;
Not the least obeisance made he; not a minute stopped or stayed he;
But, with mien of lord or lady, perched above my chamber door--
Perched upon a bust of Pallas just above my chamber door--
                Perched, and sat, and nothing more.

Then this ebony bird beguiling my sad fancy into smiling,
By the grave and stern decorum of the countenance it wore,
"Though thy crest be shorn and shaven, thou," I said, "art sure no craven,
Ghastly grim and ancient Raven wandering from the Nightly shore--
Tell me what thy lordly name is on the Night's Plutonian shore!"
               Quoth the Raven "Nevermore."

Much I marvelled this ungainly fowl to hear discourse so plainly,
Though its answer little meaning--little relevancy bore;
For we cannot help agreeing that no living human being
Ever yet was blest with seeing bird above his chamber door--
Bird or beast upon the sculptured bust above his chamber door,
               With such name as "Nevermore."

But the Raven, sitting lonely on the placid bust, spoke only
That one word, as if his soul in that one word he did outpour.
Nothing further then he uttered--not a feather then he fluttered--
Till I scarcely more than muttered "Other friends have flown before--
On the morrow he will leave me, as my hopes have flown before."
               Then the bird said "Nevermore."

Startled at the stillness broken by reply so aptly spoken,
"Doubtless," said I, "what it utters is its only stock and store
Caught from some unhappy master whom unmerciful Disaster
Followed fast and followed faster till his songs one burden bore--
Till the dirges of his Hope that melancholy burden bore
               Of 'Never--nevermore.'"

But the Raven still beguiling my sad fancy into smiling,
Straight I wheeled a cushioned seat in front of bird, and bust and door;
Then, upon the velvet sinking, I betook myself to linking
Fancy unto fancy, thinking what this ominous bird of yore--
What this grim, ungainly, ghastly, gaunt and ominous bird of yore
               Meant in croaking "Nevermore."

This I sat engaged in guessing, but no syllable expressing
To the fowl whose fiery eyes now burned into my bosom's core;
This and more I sat divining, with my head at ease reclining
On the cushion's velvet lining that the lamp-light gloated o'er,
But whose velvet violet lining with the lamp-light gloating o'er,
               She shall press, ah, nevermore!

Then, methought, the air grew denser, perfumed from an unseen censer
Swung by Seraphim whose foot-falls tinkled on the tufted floor.
"Wretch," I cried, "thy God hath lent thee--by these angels he hath sent thee
Respite--respite and nepenthe, from thy memories of Lenore;
Quaff, oh quaff this kind nepenthe and forget this lost Lenore!"
               Quoth the Raven "Nevermore."

"Prophet!" said I, "thing of evil!--prophet still, if bird or devil!--
Whether Tempter sent, or whether tempest tossed thee here ashore,
Desolate yet all undaunted, on this desert land enchanted--
On this home by Horror haunted--tell me truly, I implore--
Is there--is there balm in Gilead?--tell me--tell me, I implore!"
               Quoth the Raven "Nevermore."

"Prophet!" said I, "thing of evil--prophet still, if bird or devil!
By that Heaven that bends above us--by that God we both adore--
Tell this soul with sorrow laden if, within the distant Aidenn,
It shall clasp a sainted maiden whom the angels name Lenore--
Clasp a rare and radiant maiden whom the angels name Lenore."
                Quoth the Raven "Nevermore."

"Be that word our sign in parting, bird or fiend!" I shrieked, upstarting--
"Get thee back into the tempest and the Night's Plutonian shore!
Leave no black plume as a token of that lie thy soul hath spoken!
Leave my loneliness unbroken!--quit the bust above my door!
Take thy beak from out my heart, and take thy form from off my door!"
               Quoth the Raven "Nevermore."

And the Raven, never flitting, still is sitting, still is sitting
On the pallid bust of Pallas just above my chamber door;
And his eyes have all the seeming of a demon's that is dreaming,
And the lamp-light o'er him streaming throws his shadow on the floor;
And my soul from out that shadow that lies floating on the floor
               Shall be lifted--nevermore!


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From: Invisible
Subject: Re: Crab Canon
Date: 4 Jul 2011 04:01:26
Message: <4e117356@news.povray.org>
On 04/07/2011 06:17 AM, nemesis wrote:
> Orchid XP v8<voi### [at] devnull>  wrote:
>> PS. I hate peotry. I've never yet found any that wasn't utterly tedious.
>
> Poetry is not only the highest form of literature:  it's also the most
> math-and-music-like.  You're quite a weenie math geek. :p

Yeah, I know. I don't even like set theory, and that's the only 
important part of all of mathematics [apparently].

> well, get prepared for a loooong tedious monday morning.  Carpe Diem!

Hey, it's Monday morning. I'm prepared. :-P


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