> A better question might be how much does Office cost? (A lot of people 
> seem to be quite shocked that this doesn't just "come with" a computer. 
> They think of "a computer" as a thing that runs Word...)

It does come with a lot of computers though, again I suspect they get a bulk 
discount on Office as well as Windows.

> Last time I checked, it's something like £100 for Word, £180 for Word + 
> Excel, £250 for Word + Excel + PowerPoint, and steeper still if you want 
> the other stuff. (Admittedly, most people just want Word, or maybe Word 
> and Excel.)

Amazon has Office 2007 Home/Student version for 67 pounds. That gets you 
Word, Excel and PowerPoint which can be installed on up to 3 machines. 
Doesn't sound bad to me!

> In contrast, a graphic tablet and a copy of Photoshop cost my dad about 
> £75 (I think), and that's *very* specialist...

That's probably PS Elements, the cut-down version of PS, presumably released 
to compete with Paint Shop Pro.

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> To reference your own example and use your own terminology, almost every 
> feature of OpenOffice Writer was "stolen" from MS Word.  Even the menus 
> were laid out as similarly as possible.

Yes, this was such a dirty trick by Open Office, take some program that 
another company had spent years and huge amounts of money to develop, and 
BLATANTLY just copy it so it looks almost identical.  Then, give it away for 
FREE!  How can they get away with that?  They're parasites trying to crush 
everyone else.

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>> That's the genius of it, see?
> 
> From a business point of view, yes.  I thought you didn't like big 
> business, though? :)

I don't like being cheated out of my money, no. But the Wii is actually 
geniunely unusual and interesting. I can see why people would buy it. 
(Although *I* won't be buying one any time soon...)

> What I really get annoyed at is people claiming things like, "the Wii 
> will completely change video games."  Not for ME it won't.

Perhaps not completely, no. But I think it opens up some interesting 
possibilities. It's just a question of how to apply it most usefully.

Post a reply to this message

scott wrote:
>> A better question might be how much does Office cost? (A lot of people 
>> seem to be quite shocked that this doesn't just "come with" a 
>> computer. They think of "a computer" as a thing that runs Word...)
> 
> It does come with a lot of computers though, again I suspect they get a 
> bulk discount on Office as well as Windows.

Really? Interesting... I've seen a few PCs that come with M$ Works, but 
not Office itself.

>> Last time I checked, it's something like £100 for Word, £180 for Word 
>> + Excel, £250 for Word + Excel + PowerPoint, and steeper still if you 
>> want the other stuff. (Admittedly, most people just want Word, or 
>> maybe Word and Excel.)
> 
> Amazon has Office 2007 Home/Student version for 67 pounds. That gets you 
> Word, Excel and PowerPoint which can be installed on up to 3 machines. 
> Doesn't sound bad to me!

Sure, but only if you're a student. That's no help to anybody else.

>> In contrast, a graphic tablet and a copy of Photoshop cost my dad 
>> about £75 (I think), and that's *very* specialist...
> 
> That's probably PS Elements, the cut-down version of PS, presumably 
> released to compete with Paint Shop Pro.

I was surprised that you can even buy the hardware part for just £75, 
given how niche this product is...

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>> To reference your own example and use your own terminology, almost 
>> every feature of OpenOffice Writer was "stolen" from MS Word.  Even 
>> the menus were laid out as similarly as possible.
> 
> Yes, this was such a dirty trick by Open Office, take some program that 
> another company had spent years and huge amounts of money to develop, 
> and BLATANTLY just copy it so it looks almost identical.  Then, give it 
> away for FREE!  How can they get away with that?  They're parasites 
> trying to crush everyone else.

I would be far more sympathetic if it weren't for the fact that Open 
Office was put together in (comparatively speaking) five minutes yet 
works far better than the thing it's copying. You would expect quite the 
opposite; Microsoft has been developing and testing their Office for 
*decades*. You'd think it would be perfectly honed and polished by now. 
The fact that somebody else can knock something up in five minutes that 
works better doesn't reflect well on M$.

Still, I would prefer it if OO didn't try so hard to exactly copy M$. 
Who says the MS Office menu layout is the most logical choice? Why don't 
they come up with something better themselves? (Similar remarks apply to 
KDE and the way it attempts to copy Windows rather than come up with 
something better.) The answer, presumably, is that copying an existing 
product means people don't have to "learn" anything to use the new one - 
but then, that does start to make you wonder what the advantage of the 
new one actually is...

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On Tue, 14 Jul 2009 10:18:38 +0200, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
>>  Amazon has Office 2007 Home/Student version for 67 pounds. That gets  
>> you Word, Excel and PowerPoint which can be installed on up to 3  
>> machines. Doesn't sound bad to me!
>
> Sure, but only if you're a student. That's no help to anybody else.

No, not just for students. Basically any non-commercial usage.



-- 
FE

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>>>  Amazon has Office 2007 Home/Student version for 67 pounds. That gets 
>>> you Word, Excel and PowerPoint which can be installed on up to 3 
>>> machines. Doesn't sound bad to me!
>>
>> Sure, but only if you're a student. That's no help to anybody else.
> 
> No, not just for students. Basically any non-commercial usage.

That would be a rather drastic licensing difference... Can you quote a 
source for this?

Post a reply to this message

>>>>  Amazon has Office 2007 Home/Student version for 67 pounds. That gets 
>>>> you Word, Excel and PowerPoint which can be installed on up to 3 
>>>> machines. Doesn't sound bad to me!
>>>
>>> Sure, but only if you're a student. That's no help to anybody else.
>
>> No, not just for students. Basically any non-commercial usage.
>
> That would be a rather drastic licensing difference... Can you quote a 
> source for this?

http://office.microsoft.com/en-gb/suites/HA101655301033.aspx

"Are there license restrictions to Office Home and Student 2007?

Yes. Office Home and Student 2007 is licensed only for noncommercial use by 
households. It cannot be used in commercial (business) situations."

Post a reply to this message

> I would be far more sympathetic if it weren't for the fact that Open 
> Office was put together in (comparatively speaking) five minutes yet works 
> far better than the thing it's copying.

I guess it's really easy (comparatively speaking) if you have another 
program to copy exactly.

Post a reply to this message

>>>> Sure, but only if you're a student. That's no help to anybody else.
>>
>>> No, not just for students. Basically any non-commercial usage.
>>
>> That would be a rather drastic licensing difference... Can you quote a 
>> source for this?
> 
> http://office.microsoft.com/en-gb/suites/HA101655301033.aspx
> 
> "Are there license restrictions to Office Home and Student 2007?
> 
> Yes. Office Home and Student 2007 is licensed only for noncommercial use 
> by households. It cannot be used in commercial (business) situations."

...but no mention of you having to actually *be* a student...

Oh, I see. It's actually called "Home and Student Edition". Interesting. 
When my mum tried to buy this, it was "Student Edition" and you actually 
had to provide proof of enrolement, etc. Apparently they've changed 
their policy...

Well, I guess at least I can say I've learned something today.

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