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scott <sco### [at] laptop com> wrote:
> I
> said that if you boasted about how much work you'd done at a school in the
> UK you'd likely get beaten up by a group of bullies at lunchtime!
> I blame the parents!
I think it's just a question of primitive jealousy, which the western
culture does nothing to fix.
"He has done more than me, he thinks he is better than me. I'll teach
him a lesson."
--
- Warp
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On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 11:21:21 +0100, Invisible wrote:
> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> The best revenge is to do well.
>
> Yeah well... that's not always possible.
It is. But it doesn't happen without effort. The good fortune I've had
did not just drop into my lap; I had to work for it. The harder I've
worked, the luckier I've been. It works that way.
>> Seriously, I was also the kid who was picked last in gym class for all
>> the team sports because I absolutely sucked at all of them. I had
>> maybe 4 friends through high school, a few more in college (though I've
>> only heard from 3 or 4 since leaving school, and not very often at
>> that)
>
> Then you have 4 more than me.
Had. I can't remember the last time I heard from any of them.
>> Even at the various jobs I've worked, I've generally been regarded
>> (until the last 5 years, really) as someone that if they could avoid
>> interacting with, that was a good thing.
>
> Nice to know that it's only kids, eh? :-S
It's a people thing.
>> I look back at some of the kids I went to high school with and see
>> where they are - and while a few have done well for themselves, most
>> seem to be stuck in some sort of dead-end job that doesn't look to pay
>> all that well.
>
> Hmm... sounds rather like... MY JOB!
I don't think so. It seems like it now - it seemed like it to me when I
was where you are. I didn't think I'd ever do anything other than IT
work, couldn't see myself doing management stuff at all. I maintained my
integrity and someone noticed and offered me this job when I was about to
be laid off. I had absolutely no idea what I was doing when I started
(and some days it still feels like I don't, now almost 4 years in), but
I've found that overall, I'm actually pretty good at it.
I *never* wanted to do a job that involved dealing with people - that's
why I got into IT. Computers don't talk back, and when they act up, you
can whack them with a hammer and they don't sue you.
>> You have the skills and the talent to leave them in the dust. Do it,
>> and never look back.
>
> Heh. If only...
Like I said, it won't fall into your lap, you have to work at it. Don't
sit back and wait for the recruiters to call you; call them. Get your
name out in front of them *regularly*.
IIRC, you're still relatively new to the workforce - it takes time to
establish yourself and your skills. You said a few months ago "who would
want to hire a programmer who didn't know C or Java?". Here's one answer:
http://www.nat.org/blog/
(May 20 entry)
"The ideal person will be a strong programmer who can tell a good bug
report from a bad one, will consider themself a whiz at scripting
(***shell, perl - whatever works for you***), and will enjoy
understanding the ins and outs of a sophisticated system." (emphasis
added)
Nat, BTW, is a VP of Linux Desktop development. While none of these jobs
may be exactly what you're looking for, my point is that these types of
positions do exist where knowing C, C++ or Java doesn't matter. Maybe
you could contribute your skills to the Mono project and fix some of the
issues with it - it runs on Windows and is based on .NET. Or maybe get
involved in Moonlight, an OSS version of Silverlight that's currently
being worked on.
There are options, but unless you seek them out, you're not going to find
them. Jobs generally don't fall out of the sky and just land in people's
laps.
Jim
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>> For some reason, we live in a culture where it is seen as "desirable" to
>> not be cleaver.
>
> I don't find that very surprising. Just make a google image search
> on "cleaver". Why would anyone want to be that?
OK, so I can't spell very well. I think we've established that one. It's
actually a miracle I can read or write at all! :-P
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7435023.stm
>
> I have noticed that many people have some kind of conscious, intentional
> mind block for anything involving math.
Definitely.
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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Warp wrote:
> I think it's just a question of primitive jealousy, which the western
> culture does nothing to fix.
>
> "He has done more than me, he thinks he is better than me. I'll teach
> him a lesson."
Definitely.
Much easier to say "intelligent people suck" than to try to actually be
better than them.
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 06:35:36 -0400, Warp wrote:
> They completely reject the notion.
> It's like they had some kind of fear or phobia, and they like to hide
> behind their "I'm not good at math" defense. Any explanations or
> attempts at teaching will fall to deaf ears. Heaven forbid that they
> ever actually learn math!
The funny thing is that many of these people are very good at doing
math. My mom, for example, has always claimed to be a slow reader and
poor at math. She has two primary hobbies (one of which she uses as a
source for income): Cooking and sewing. With sewing, she takes patterns
and scales them to sizes that the pattern doesn't include (up or down) -
doing fairly complex calculations without even thinking about it to
resize an odd shape (or more often two or more odd shapes) properly so
they can be sewn together in a way that it will actually work.
Similarly, she can scale a recipe properly in her head for however many
guests are eating. It's quite amazing to watch - and then she sits down
to do the taxes, and just gets completely frustrated at all the numbers.
I think it is some sort of a block.
Jim
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Jim Henderson wrote:
> The funny thing is that many of these people are very good at doing
> math.
Math /= arithmetic. ;-)
*I* suck at arithmetic. It wasn't until I was about 17 that I discovered
that mathematics involves more than just those sheets of long division
problems.
(Seriously - why the hell does anybody in the modern era need to be
fluent at long division? Sure, you should know how it works. But being
able to finish 50 problems in an hour? That just seems pointless. Get a
computer!)
There are polynomial equations, derivatives and integrals, the binomial
theorum, statistical parameters and probability distributions,
trigonometric ratios, complex numbers and matrix algebra, and why are
those girls in the corner laughing at me? ._.
> and then she sits down
> to do the taxes, and just gets completely frustrated at all the numbers.
>
> I think it is some sort of a block.
No no - *everybody* gets confused as hell by taxes. ;-)
[Why do they make them so complicated? Is it a conspiracy to ensure you
get them wrong and hand over more money than you're supposed to??]
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> >> For some reason, we live in a culture where it is seen as "desirable" to
> >> not be cleaver.
> >
> > I don't find that very surprising. Just make a google image search
> > on "cleaver". Why would anyone want to be that?
> OK, so I can't spell very well. I think we've established that one. It's
> actually a miracle I can read or write at all! :-P
Given the subject of this thread, shouldn't you try to better yourself
at this instead of just using the "I can't spell very well" defense? ;)
> >> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7435023.stm
> >
> > I have noticed that many people have some kind of conscious, intentional
> > mind block for anything involving math.
> Definitely.
Do I see some kind of irony in here? ;)
--
- Warp
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Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> (Seriously - why the hell does anybody in the modern era need to be
> fluent at long division?
No such thing as useless knowledge.
How many people thought high-school math classes were boring and useless,
until they fell in love with POV-Ray?
> > and then she sits down
> > to do the taxes, and just gets completely frustrated at all the numbers.
> >
> > I think it is some sort of a block.
> No no - *everybody* gets confused as hell by taxes. ;-)
Is it really so that in the US, the UK and other places everybody has
to explicitly fill out tax forms each year, specifying all their income,
tax reductions, etc?
Here in Finland all that is automatic: You receive a pre-filled form
with all your income, tax reductions, etc. already put in. If everything
is correct, you don't have to do anything about it. Only if there's
something not in the form already (for example some significant payment
which has not been notified to the tax officials, or something which is
worth tax reductions) you'll have to add it to the form and return it.
(Of course for employers it's a completely different matter, but normal
people don't have to worry about that.)
I would be really surprised if this was not the case in most other
countries too.
> [Why do they make them so complicated? Is it a conspiracy to ensure you
> get them wrong and hand over more money than you're supposed to??]
You mean there are no tax returns where you live? That would be odd.
--
- Warp
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>> OK, so I can't spell very well. I think we've established that one. It's
>> actually a miracle I can read or write at all! :-P
>
> Given the subject of this thread, shouldn't you try to better yourself
> at this instead of just using the "I can't spell very well" defense? ;)
And who says I'm not trying?
Either way, laughing at me isn't helping anything, is it? :-P
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 12:02:42 +0100, Invisible wrote:
> Jim Henderson wrote:
>
>> The funny thing is that many of these people are very good at doing
>> math.
>
> Math /= arithmetic. ;-)
I know. And what I see my mom do isn't simple arithmetic. If it were, I
could handle it (because I'm fairly good at arithmetic).
> (Seriously - why the hell does anybody in the modern era need to be
> fluent at long division? Sure, you should know how it works. But being
> able to finish 50 problems in an hour? That just seems pointless. Get a
> computer!)
I often wondered that as well when I was in college; similarly, I never
understood the need to understand physics formulae as a computer
programmer. If I was writing a simulation for an airplane, I was going
to have reference materials available for the things that *weren't* in a
standard function library to make sure I got them right - because it
sucks to design an airplane that doesn't actually fly because you figured
the wing cross sections wrong in the simulation or got the airflow
dynamics equation wrong.
>> and then she sits down
>> to do the taxes, and just gets completely frustrated at all the
>> numbers.
>>
>> I think it is some sort of a block.
>
> No no - *everybody* gets confused as hell by taxes. ;-)
What confuses me more is figuring out the right number of deductions for
withholding. I'm not keen to give the US government an interest-free
loan with money I could be *doing* something with (like earning
interest), but having to pay in requires more discipline than I have to
save some money to pay what's owed.
> [Why do they make them so complicated? Is it a conspiracy to ensure you
> get them wrong and hand over more money than you're supposed to??]
You might be onto something there. Here in the US, maybe it's to ensure
the future employment for all the employees of the IRS.
Jim
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