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Warp <war### [at] tag povrayorg> wrote:
> Examples of other commonly-used words loaned into English from French,
> and which can be quite difficult to pronounce for someone who has never
> heard them: genre, lingerie, entrepreneur, facade.
OTOH, sometimes even "native" words are hard to pronounce, even to
natives. One example which comes to mind is worcestershire sauce.
--
- Warp
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On 22 Apr 2008 08:50:19 -0400, Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:
>
> OTOH, sometimes even "native" words are hard to pronounce, even to
>natives. One example which comes to mind is worcestershire sauce.
Don't remind me :)
--
Regards
Stephen
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Stephen wrote:
> On 22 Apr 2008 08:50:19 -0400, Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:
>
>> OTOH, sometimes even "native" words are hard to pronounce, even to
>> natives. One example which comes to mind is worcestershire sauce.
>
> Don't remind me :)
...let's all discuss this over a drink in a pub near Leicester Square :-)
John
--
I will be brief but not nearly so brief as Salvador Dali, who gave the
world's shortest speech. He said, "I will be so brief I am already
finished," then he sat down.
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On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 14:14:08 +0100, Doctor John <doc### [at] gmailcom>
wrote:
>Stephen wrote:
>> On 22 Apr 2008 08:50:19 -0400, Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:
>>
>>> OTOH, sometimes even "native" words are hard to pronounce, even to
>>> natives. One example which comes to mind is worcestershire sauce.
>>
>> Don't remind me :)
>...let's all discuss this over a drink in a pub near Leicester Square :-)
>
Sounds good to me :)
--
Regards
Stephen
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> OTOH, sometimes even "native" words are hard to pronounce, even to
> natives. One example which comes to mind is worcestershire sauce.
I don't think many English natives would find that hard to pronounce, there
are several (3?) counties in England that finish in -cestershire, and plenty
more towns and cities that end in -cester.
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Invisible wrote:
> http://blog.orphi.me.uk/archives/268
>
> How many of these words can *you* figure out, without looking them up?
>
> Am I just supremely illiterate, or are these words actually rare?
>
Knew all but Defenstration / Defenestration, and I swing a hammer for a
living. You're not knowing these words supports my low opinion of geek
television and literature [1], which I have found to be typically inane.
What I can't figure out is why? Why are such an intelligent group of
people drawn so strongly to children's books and poorly written pulp
magazine serials?
-Shay
[1] I read /Mote in God's Eye/, /Ringworld/, /The Hobbit/, and a few
others when I was on a cardio (10.5 elliptical trainer hours a week)
kick a few years ago.
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On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 08:41:54 -0500, Shay <sha### [at] nonenone> wrote:
>What I can't figure out is why? Why are such an intelligent group of
>people drawn so strongly to children's books and poorly written pulp
>magazine serials?
My guess is arrested development. ;)
--
Regards
Stephen
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Shay wrote:
>
> Knew all but Defenstration / Defenestration, and I swing a hammer for a
> living. You're not knowing these words supports my low opinion of geek
> television and literature [1], which I have found to be typically inane.
> What I can't figure out is why?
I'm sure that you'll get a few flames over that comment but no need to
don fireproof underwear yet :-)
I would hardly call Iain M. Banks' compositions inane. atm I'm also
re-reading Haldeman's The Forever War. Definitely not inane tho' the
ending is a fraction weak.
John
--
I will be brief but not nearly so brief as Salvador Dali, who gave the
world's shortest speech. He said, "I will be so brief I am already
finished," then he sat down.
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Invisible wrote:
> http://blog.orphi.me.uk/archives/268
>
> How many of these words can *you* figure out, without looking them up?
>
> Am I just supremely illiterate, or are these words actually rare?
>
The only one I didn't know the meaning of right off was catharsis.
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scott <sco### [at] laptopcom> wrote:
> > OTOH, sometimes even "native" words are hard to pronounce, even to
> > natives. One example which comes to mind is worcestershire sauce.
> I don't think many English natives would find that hard to pronounce, there
> are several (3?) counties in England that finish in -cestershire, and plenty
> more towns and cities that end in -cester.
Ok, I was thinking about Americans, actually. British people probably
have little problem with that name.
--
- Warp
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Invisible wrote:
>> "Barista" is rather easy to guess, especially if you know Spanish
>> (like I do).
>
> Any hints on how to pronounce it?
>
In U.S. english: "Bahreestuh"
>
>> Double entendre is quite common speech, IMO.
>
> Again, how do you even pronounce such a word?
>
In U.S. english: "Double" ahntahndrah
>> If you don't know what MILF is, you haven't been reading the proper
>> webcomics... ;)
>
> Er... no, you know what? I DON'T EVEN WANNA KNOW!
>
MILF is apparently an acronym for something ... I learned this a while
back trying to understand it.
>> What's unclear about "codependent"?
>
> The fact that it's considered bad.
>
Now I'm confused?
>> It's really strange you don't know what "platonic" or "effeminate"
>> mean, IMO.
>
> I guessed that "platonic" would be something to do with regular solids.
Yes, there are platonic solids, and platonic relationships. Platonic
means no sexual overtones, e.g. "Just friends"
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Gilles Tran wrote:
>>> The oedipus complex is basic psychology.
>
>> Or "really seriously messed-up weirdness", depending on your point of
>> view...
>
> This from a guy who *** lives *** with his dear mom :P
>
> G.
>
(Sorry Andrew)
Now *that* was funny.
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John VanSickle wrote:
> Oedipus complex: n. A romantic attraction towards ones own parent of
> the opposite sex.
>
Usually refers only to a male's attraction to his mother. A female's
attraction to her father is an Electra complex.
> canteloupe: Seriously, a fruit with a rough tannish rind and a orange-colored
flesh.
Often used in the USA to refer to a musk melon.
> Looks like I only missed one completely, and may not be sure of another.
>
> Regards,
> John
Which one did you miss?
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Invisible wrote:
> "WHAT ARE YOU DOING?!"
> "I just stuck a trumpet in your ass. Aren't instruments fun?"
>
> At that point, I decided to stop watching...
>
"One time at band camp ..."
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Invisible wrote:
> Hell, I *still* don't know how to pronounce genre! ;-)
johnruh or zhanruh ... take your pick.
>
> [And lingerie is just hard to physically utter. Still, not something I'm
> ever likely to need to do...]
>
>>> I guessed that "platonic" would be something to do with regular solids.
>>
>> Ever heard of platonic love?
>
> Yes. I never knew what it meant though.
>
> Actually there are lots of words I've heard and wondered what they
> meant. [Obviously I can't think of a single example *right now*...]
>
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Warp wrote:
> OTOH, sometimes even "native" words are hard to pronounce, even to
> natives. One example which comes to mind is worcestershire sauce.
That one always trips me up :/
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On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 10:31:12 -0400, Sabrina Kilian <"ykgp at
vtSPAM.edu"> wrote:
>John VanSickle wrote:
>> Oedipus complex: n. A romantic attraction towards ones own parent of
>> the opposite sex.
>>
>
>Usually refers only to a male's attraction to his mother. A female's
>attraction to her father is an Electra complex.
Since we are showing off with our Greek. I point Andrew to the "Medea
complex" if he wants to worry :)
--
Regards
Stephen
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>I'm also
> re-reading Haldeman's The Forever War. Definitely not inane tho' the
> ending is a fraction weak.
>
> John
The epitome late '60s early '70s mainstream Sci-fi.
--
H²
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"Invisible" <voi### [at] devnull> wrote in message
news:480dae0b@news.povray.org...
> http://blog.orphi.me.uk/archives/268
>
> How many of these words can *you* figure out, without looking them up?
>
> Am I just supremely illiterate, or are these words actually rare?
I got about 90% of them. Guess I don't read enough..
How much fiction (excluding web comics) do you read?
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"John VanSickle" <evi### [at] hotmailcom> wrote in message
news:480dd27b@news.povray.org...
> Invisible wrote:
> > http://blog.orphi.me.uk/archives/268
> >
> > How many of these words can *you* figure out, without looking them up?
>
> Barista: Don't know this one. Possibly either a Spanish term for a
> lawyer, or a resident of a Hispanic ghetto.
Think starbucks.
From dictionary.com - a person who works at the counter of a coffee shop; a
coffee bar server
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Bill Pragnell escribió:
> 'on-TON-druh' might
> be a rough approximation (apologies to the French).
"Critics of ad hoc pronunciation schemes point out that such schemas are
inherently self-referential, since they rely on the ability of the
reader to already know how a large number of words are commonly
pronounced. In addition, such schemas often assume a certain language,
dialect or accent on the part of the reader, and due to its popularity
in the US, this is very often a US accent."
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"Gail Shaw" <initialsurname@sentech sa dot com> wrote in message
news:480e018e@news.povray.org...
>
> "Invisible" <voi### [at] devnull> wrote in message
> news:480dae0b@news.povray.org...
> > http://blog.orphi.me.uk/archives/268
> >
> > How many of these words can *you* figure out, without looking them up?
> >
> > Am I just supremely illiterate, or are these words actually rare?
>
> I got about 90% of them. Guess I don't read enough..
>
> How much fiction (excluding web comics) do you read?
>
p.s. if you want to improve your vocabulary -
http://dictionary.reference.com/wordoftheday/list/
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And lo on Tue, 22 Apr 2008 14:33:55 +0100, scott <sco### [at] laptopcom> did
spake, saying:
>> OTOH, sometimes even "native" words are hard to pronounce, even to
>> natives. One example which comes to mind is worcestershire sauce.
Mmm windy-river fort sauce.
> I don't think many English natives would find that hard to pronounce,
> there are several (3?) counties in England that finish in -cestershire,
> and plenty more towns and cities that end in -cester.
Damn Romans got everywhere. :-)
--
Phil Cook
--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com
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Nicolas Alvarez wrote:
> Bill Pragnell escribió:
>> 'on-TON-druh' might be a rough approximation (apologies to the French).
>
> "Critics of ad hoc pronunciation schemes point out that such schemas are
> inherently self-referential, since they rely on the ability of the
> reader to already know how a large number of words are commonly
> pronounced. In addition, such schemas often assume a certain language,
> dialect or accent on the part of the reader, and due to its popularity
> in the US, this is very often a US accent."
What? do you propose we use IPA?
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Nicolas Alvarez wrote:
> Bill Pragnell escribió:
>> 'on-TON-druh' might be a rough approximation (apologies to the French).
>
> "Critics of ad hoc pronunciation schemes point out that such schemas are
> inherently self-referential, since they rely on the ability of the
> reader to already know how a large number of words are commonly
> pronounced. In addition, such schemas often assume a certain language,
> dialect or accent on the part of the reader, and due to its popularity
> in the US, this is very often a US accent."
Fair enough. This example works fine for both british and US accents,
though.
:P
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And lo on Tue, 22 Apr 2008 12:56:36 +0100, John VanSickle
<evi### [at] hotmailcom> did spake, saying:
> Invisible wrote:
>> http://blog.orphi.me.uk/archives/268
>> How many of these words can *you* figure out, without looking them up?
>
> lush: (1) adj. harboring great quantities of life, esp. plant life.
> (2) n. a person given to excessive alcohol consumption.
Also a possible abbreviation of luscious.
> Oedipus complex: n. A romantic attraction towards ones own parent of
> the opposite sex.
Less noted is the Jocasta complex which is the romantic attraction of the
mother to the son.
> defenestration: seriously, the act of ejecting another person or thing
> from a building through a window of said edifice.
Ah so that's where deportation came from ;-)
> MILF: Acronym of Mother I'd Like to Fuck
Yet another Simpsons reference - this time from the game and the
NeverQuest level
Homer: Wow Marge you are one hot MILF
Marge: The word is elf. Elf!
--
Phil Cook
--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com
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On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 16:24:55 +0100, "Phil Cook"
<phi### [at] nospamrocainfreeservecouk> wrote:
>
>Damn Romans got everywhere. :-)
Not quite everywhere ;)
--
Regards
Stephen
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And lo on Tue, 22 Apr 2008 14:41:54 +0100, Shay <sha### [at] nonenone> did
spake, saying:
> Invisible wrote:
>> http://blog.orphi.me.uk/archives/268
>> How many of these words can *you* figure out, without looking them up?
>> Am I just supremely illiterate, or are these words actually rare?
>>
> You're not knowing these words supports my low opinion of geek
> television and literature [1], which I have found to be typically inane.
> What I can't figure out is why? Why are such an intelligent group of
> people drawn so strongly to children's books and poorly written pulp
> magazine serials?
Answer 1: Because geeks work their brains so hard they sometimes need to
give them the equivalent of a nice sit down and a cuppa.
Answer 2: Because socially and emotionally that's what what geeks relate
to most.
Pick one or submit your own :-)
--
Phil Cook
--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com
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Mike Raiford escribió:
> What? do you propose we use IPA?
*I* would understand that easier!
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And lo on Tue, 22 Apr 2008 16:48:31 +0100, Stephen <mcavoysAT@aolDOTcom>
did spake, saying:
> On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 16:24:55 +0100, "Phil Cook"
> <phi### [at] nospamrocainfreeservecouk> wrote:
>
>>
>> Damn Romans got everywhere. :-)
>
> Not quite everywhere ;)
Everywhere worth going to
'I say Cladius let's conquer Scotty land so as to partake of the wonderful
natural ice-cold springs and wander in our togas amongst the many thistle
farms enjoying the bracing ice winds and snow and the joyous keening sound
of the bagpipes.'
'Or we could just build a bloody great wall along the border to discourage
any other idiots like you from trying to visit and keep the natives penned
up in that hellhole*'
:-P
*I forget, was Glasgow around back then?
--
Phil Cook
--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com
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John VanSickle escribió:
> burro: From the Spanish word for donkey. There may be a slang meaning
> of which I am unaware.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burrito
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On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 17:25:11 +0200, "Gail Shaw"
<initialsurname@sentech sa dot com> wrote:
>
>p.s. if you want to improve your vocabulary -
>http://dictionary.reference.com/wordoftheday/list/
>
or
http://www.readersdigest.co.uk/wordpower/
:)
--
Regards
Stephen
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Nicolas Alvarez <nic### [at] gmailisthebestcom> wrote:
> Bill Pragnell escribió:
> > 'on-TON-druh' might
> > be a rough approximation (apologies to the French).
> "Critics of ad hoc pronunciation schemes point out that such schemas are
> inherently self-referential, since they rely on the ability of the
> reader to already know how a large number of words are commonly
> pronounced. In addition, such schemas often assume a certain language,
> dialect or accent on the part of the reader, and due to its popularity
> in the US, this is very often a US accent."
Personally I also oppose that type of "pronounciation syntax" which
looks more like the writer is having rough sex than anything else.
--
- Warp
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And lo on Tue, 22 Apr 2008 16:59:56 +0100, Nicolas Alvarez
<nic### [at] gmailisthebestcom> did spake, saying:
> Mike Raiford escribió:
>> What? do you propose we use IPA?
>
> *I* would understand that easier!
Okee dokee
dublɑ̃ˈtɑ̃drə/ or /ˈdʌbəl ɑnˈtɑndrə
with UTF-8 that should display correctly.
--
Phil Cook
--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com
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On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 17:01:23 +0100, "Phil Cook"
<phi### [at] nospamrocainfreeservecouk> wrote:
>
>Everywhere worth going to
>
>'I say Cladius let's conquer Scotty land so as to partake of the wonderful
>natural ice-cold springs and wander in our togas amongst the many thistle
>farms enjoying the bracing ice winds and snow and the joyous keening sound
>of the bagpipes.'
>'Or we could just build a bloody great wall along the border to discourage
>any other idiots like you from trying to visit and keep the natives penned
>up in that hellhole*'
>
>:-P
>
>*I forget, was Glasgow around back then?
Actually it was Hadrian who built it as he wanted to stop his army
from disserting at Hogmanay. And Glasgow was a green place in those
days, Jimmie. :)
--
Regards
Stephen
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On 22 Apr 2008 12:12:29 -0400, Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:
>
> Personally I also oppose that type of "pronounciation syntax" which
>looks more like the writer is having rough sex than anything else.
So that is what rough sex looks like. I did not know, thanks ;)
--
Regards
Stephen
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On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 11:00:35 +0100, Invisible wrote:
>> "Barista" is rather easy to guess, especially if you know Spanish
>> (like I do).
>
> Any hints on how to pronounce it?
bar-EE-stuh. (emphaize the second syllable)
>> Double entendre is quite common speech, IMO.
>
> Again, how do you even pronounce such a word?
Double en-tande (it's French, this is the way I usually hear it
pronounced, with a silent 'r')
>> What's unclear about "codependent"?
>
> The fact that it's considered bad.
It's usually used in the context of substance abuse (drugs, alcohol, etc).
> Fact: My mum thinks I have an amazingly diverse and at times
> incomprehensible vocabulary.
We all have different sets of knowledge.
Jim
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Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> http://blog.orphi.me.uk/archives/268
>
> How many of these words can *you* figure out, without looking them up?
>
> Am I just supremely illiterate, or are these words actually rare?
>
> --
> http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
> http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
Supremely illiterate? Not a chance in hell. But I might bet youthful.
Was a time I didnt know those words.
Ever have an epiphany? And we laughed with your celebration and cried with your
tears.
aQ
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Nicolas Alvarez <nic### [at] gmailisthebestcom> wrote:
> Bill Pragnell escribió:
> > 'on-TON-druh' might
> > be a rough approximation (apologies to the French).
>
> "Critics of ad hoc pronunciation schemes point out that such schemas are
> inherently self-referential, since they rely on the ability of the
> reader to already know how a large number of words are commonly
> pronounced. In addition, such schemas often assume a certain language,
> dialect or accent on the part of the reader, and due to its popularity
> in the US, this is very often a US accent."
Critics of *any* pronunciation schemes point out that such schemas are
inherently self-referential, and with the disadvantage of not being based on
anything familiar to the reader at all.
Seriously, I can't read pronunciation guides.
....Chambers
www.pacificwebguy.com
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Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> http://blog.orphi.me.uk/archives/268
>
> How many of these words can *you* figure out, without looking them up?
>
> Am I just supremely illiterate, or are these words actually rare?
>
> --
> http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
> http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
They aren't too rare, though it's not unusual to be unfamiliar with any of them.
Now, if you want some fun words, you should try reading Stephen R. Donaldson's
works :)
....Chambers
www.pacificwebguy.com
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Bill Pragnell wrote:
> Nicolas Alvarez wrote:
>> Bill Pragnell escribió:
>>> 'on-TON-druh' might be a rough approximation (apologies to the French).
>>
>> "Critics of ad hoc pronunciation schemes point out that such schemas
>> are inherently self-referential, since they rely on the ability of the
>> reader to already know how a large number of words are commonly
>> pronounced. In addition, such schemas often assume a certain language,
>> dialect or accent on the part of the reader, and due to its popularity
>> in the US, this is very often a US accent."
>
> Fair enough. This example works fine for both british and US accents,
> though.
>
> :P
There is also the possibility that the actual French pronunciation would
not be understood at all by English-speaking people, because they could
be more accustomed to some deformed approximation. In this case the
ad-hoc scheme can actually be more appropriate :-)
I know French people understand English with a French accent far better
than English with an English accent, at least...
--
Vincent
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Mike Raiford wrote:
> (Sorry Andrew)
>
> Now *that* was funny.
Itchy: Why are you laughing?
Scratchy: They're laughing at your pain.
Itchy: That's nasty!
Scratchy: Let's get 'em!
Itchy: Yeah!
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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Phil Cook wrote:
> Okee dokee
>
> dublɑ̃ˈtɑ̃drə/ or /ˈdʌbəl ɑnˈtɑndrə
>
> with UTF-8 that should display correctly.
Oooo, that looks indescribably *horrid* in monospace! >_<
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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Shay wrote:
> You're not knowing these words supports my low opinion of geek
> television and literature [1], which I have found to be typically inane.
Yes. Because I read a lot of that stuff... :-P
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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Gail Shaw wrote:
> How much fiction (excluding web comics) do you read?
In the last 3 years, I have read approximately 0 pages of fiction [not
counting web comics, which is a very new trend for me].
What can I say? 90% of my life is spent writing computer programs. I
don't *do* much else... [Unless you count sleeping anyway.]
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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>> Personally I also oppose that type of "pronounciation syntax" which
>> looks more like the writer is having rough sex than anything else.
>
> So that is what rough sex looks like. I did not know, thanks ;)
I feel I should interject something whitty here. But... seriously... I
think it's already been done. Woah.
http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=734
[Note final panel.]
That's the best I could manage. :-S
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
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Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> What can I say? 90% of my life is spent writing computer programs. I
> don't *do* much else... [Unless you count sleeping anyway.]
How many of the points in this list would you say apply to you?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loneliness#Common_symptoms
--
- Warp
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Stephen wrote:
> I did not know that "Barista" had entered the English language. Other
> than that I know all of them.
I've only ever heard it in reference to Starbucks. :-)
The only word I didn't know is sapphic.
And, incidentally, yes, Oedipus is supremely f'ed up. That's pretty much
why it's still a part of the language thousands of years after it was
written, in a different language yet.
> I would not say "supremely illiterate" but you don't have a broad
> enough education.
Or you don't read enough difficult books. Or you read them and skip the
hard words.
It's sometimes fun trying to figure out what my wife (who learned
Chinese first) is asking when she comes across a word she doesn't know.
"What's a mig-non?"
--
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
"That's pretty. Where's that?"
"It's the Age of Channelwood."
"We should go there on vacation some time."
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Invisible wrote:
>> "Barista" is rather easy to guess, especially if you know Spanish
>> (like I do).
>
> Any hints on how to pronounce it?
Hint: All spanish is pronounced just like it's spelled. Some of the
letters might have different pronunciation than you expect, yes, but
it's amazingly consistent ever since some Spanish bishop in the 1690's
(IIRC) did the opposite of what the French do, and said "this is a mess
- let's make it consistent."
--
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
"That's pretty. Where's that?"
"It's the Age of Channelwood."
"We should go there on vacation some time."
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Warp wrote:
> Ok, I was thinking about Americans, actually. British people probably
> have little problem with that name.
Depends where you're from. In Boston, worcestershire is one sylable. In
Texas, "yup" is three.
--
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
"That's pretty. Where's that?"
"It's the Age of Channelwood."
"We should go there on vacation some time."
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