Darren New wrote:
> Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>> What physical basis there is for this hypothesis, I have no idea...
> 
> You can, of course, move speakers as slowly as you like. The problem is, 
> the slower you move the speakers, the less energy in the resulting wave. 
> So to get loud bass, you need speakers big enough to generate enough 
> energy even when the speaker cone is moving slowly. Or you need to put 
> the speakers very close to your ears.

Right. So that's why the tiny drivers in my headphones seem to produce 
enough bass to fell a tree - they're positioned a few mm from my 
earholes! :-D

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> Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>> Hell, for that price it should also make me a cup of tea when I wake 
>> up in the morning! :-S
> 
> http://www.boingboing.net/2002/12/08/coffeemaking-pc-case.html

Does it heat the water using your CPU?

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Jim Henderson wrote:
> 
> My kid just picked up a used D610 and he seemed happy with the speakers 
> so far.

My earlier work-laptop was D610 (now I have a D620, surprisingly) and I 
mostly couldn't stand theier speakers. To be truthful, the "soundcard" 
(Intel HD-Audio oslt) those Dell's have ain't actually helping in the 
situation.

Same goes for my own HP (nc6320). The soundcard's problems can be heard 
while listening with headphones. The Dells and the HP tend to have 
twisted frequency response assigned with el-cheapo final amplifier with 
ability to overrun the mixer *and* pre-amplifier easily. It's just hidious.

Basically it's impossible to have a decent sound out of very small 
speakers, which just *can't* be designed and configured for each 
using-environment independently. But if either HP or Dell D6xx are on 
the top of what's possible, I'm surprised - it shouldn't be *that* 
impossible.

And yes, I'm a kind of hifist, so 'bout every sound-quality rant I write 
has the over-shooting part of it. But still... *brr*

Don't hook him up with eg. Sennheisers high-quality headphones :). It 
might lead to an expensive path :P.

> Jim


-- 
Eero "Aero" Ahonen
    http://www.zbxt.net
       aer### [at] removethiszbxtnetinvalid

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Eero Ahonen wrote:

> Basically it's impossible to have a decent sound out of very small 
> speakers, which just *can't* be designed and configured for each 
> using-environment independently.

Well, I don't know. If you make the laptop's case into basically a 
"picture speaker", it might work.

I rather suspect that might make the laptop rather fragile though...

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Mike the Elder wrote:
> 
> I believe the general approach taken by laptop designers is that since laptops
> are nearly always single-user personal machines, HQ audio will come through HQ
> headphones.
> 

I wish this was the case. But at least consumer-priced business-line 
HP's and Dell's don't seem to have a HQ output for headphones :( (check 
my other message). I think I should loan a Mac someday to test one.

> Best Regards,
>  Mike C.

-- 
Eero "Aero" Ahonen
    http://www.zbxt.net
       aer### [at] removethiszbxtnetinvalid

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Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> 
> Well, I don't know. If you make the laptop's case into basically a 
> "picture speaker", it might work.

You mean like a panel speaker? Those are dipols (they emit the sound to 
multiple directions and take good usage of the reflections. Therefore 
they are extremely nift about how they are placed...

-- 
Eero "Aero" Ahonen
    http://www.zbxt.net
       aer### [at] removethiszbxtnetinvalid

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On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 20:37:20 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:

>>> My laptop has speakers that would compare poorly against almost any TV
>>> set imaginable. They're very quiet (you often can't hear them over the
>>> fan) and they rattle like hell at mid-range frequencies in a way that
>>> only the cheapest disposible radio sets can. So if your laptop sounds
>>> in any way comparable to a half-decent TV set, it's much better than
>>> what I have!
>> 
>> What type of laptop?  The Compaq Armada M700 that my wife uses sounds
>> like you describe here....
> 
> Sharp GP1918 or something like that?

Never used Sharp PC equipment before....

Jim

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On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 23:56:11 +0300, Eero Ahonen wrote:

> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> 
>> My kid just picked up a used D610 and he seemed happy with the speakers
>> so far.
> 
> My earlier work-laptop was D610 (now I have a D620, surprisingly) and I
> mostly couldn't stand theier speakers. To be truthful, the "soundcard"
> (Intel HD-Audio oslt) those Dell's have ain't actually helping in the
> situation.
> 
> Same goes for my own HP (nc6320). The soundcard's problems can be heard
> while listening with headphones. The Dells and the HP tend to have
> twisted frequency response assigned with el-cheapo final amplifier with
> ability to overrun the mixer *and* pre-amplifier easily. It's just
> hidious.
> 
> Basically it's impossible to have a decent sound out of very small
> speakers, which just *can't* be designed and configured for each
> using-environment independently. But if either HP or Dell D6xx are on
> the top of what's possible, I'm surprised - it shouldn't be *that*
> impossible.
> 
> And yes, I'm a kind of hifist, so 'bout every sound-quality rant I write
> has the over-shooting part of it. But still... *brr*

Well, yeah - I'm a bit of an audiophile myself, having worked with pro 
recording equipment in the past.  Nothing in a laptop comes close - most 
frequently, it's low bass response that kills the sound.  But my T42p has 
its speakers mounted on the front edge, and it does seem to do better 
than most other laptops - but if I want really good sound, of course, 
I'll hook it up to my stereo. ;-)

> Don't hook him up with eg. Sennheisers high-quality headphones :). It
> might lead to an expensive path :P.

Well, it's his money. ;-)

Jim

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Nicolas Alvarez wrote:

>> Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>>> Hell, for that price it should also make me a cup of tea when I wake 
>>> up in the morning! :-S
>>
>> http://www.boingboing.net/2002/12/08/coffeemaking-pc-case.html
> 
> Does it heat the water using your CPU?

I believe the original page is gone, but no, it did not. :-) It used one 
of those plug-in drop-in-your-mug coils.

-- 
   Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
     "That's pretty. Where's that?"
          "It's the Age of Channelwood."
     "We should go there on vacation some time."

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> Is it possible to buy a laptop that has built-in speakers which aren't a 
> joke?

No.

> Is there some theoretical reason why the speakers in a laptop can't 
> produce high-quality sound?

Yes, to produce hi-fi quality sound you need a speaker cone bigger than most 
laptops and a very carefully designed enclosure to produce a nice response.

> Or is it merely that manufacturers are eager to fit the best, most 
> powerful CPU and sell the unit for the lowest possible cost, and fitting a 
> better set of speakers isn't a high priority?

Exactly - I suspect that most laptop design companies don't even employee a 
single audio engineer to optimise these things.  Or maybe they do, but they 
get given a space of 2cm3 and a budget of 25c per laptop.

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