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25 Jul 2021 15:58:54 EDT (-0400)
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From: clipka
Subject: Re: POV-Ray Installation thread
Date: 28 May 2021 11:09:38
Message: <60b107b2$1@news.povray.org>
Am 28.05.2021 um 17:00 schrieb clipka:

> Beware that you're creating documentation for a moving target.
> 
> If that repository of knowledge isn't kept up to date, it will become as 
> useless as any other location where such information has accumulated 
> over the years.

(Cases in point: (1) Traditionally, the boost libraries have been the 
source of a lot of installation issues. Any such issues relating to the 
boost thread library are no longer a concern with the latest development 
versions, as we've ditched that particular portion of boost for good. 
Future versions may eliminate more boost libraries. (2) Some of the 
latest experimental versions require the FreeType library, and I expect 
that requirement to propagate into POV-Ray v3.8 proper.)


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From: Mr
Subject: Re: POV-Ray Installation thread
Date: 28 May 2021 13:05:00
Message: <web.60b122172344a9a116086ed03f378f2@news.povray.org>
clipka <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:
> Am 28.05.2021 um 17:00 schrieb clipka:
>
> > Beware that you're creating documentation for a moving target.
> >
> > If that repository of knowledge isn't kept up to date, it will become as
> > useless as any other location where such information has accumulated
> > over the years.
>
> (Cases in point: (1) Traditionally, the boost libraries have been the
> source of a lot of installation issues. Any such issues relating to the
> boost thread library are no longer a concern with the latest development
> versions, as we've ditched that particular portion of boost for good.
> Future versions may eliminate more boost libraries. (2) Some of the
> latest experimental versions require the FreeType library, and I expect
> that requirement to propagate into POV-Ray v3.8 proper.)

Hello and thank you for these in-depth views. I added a disclaimer at the top of
the mentioned wiki page pointing to the source md files.

About boost dependencies, there seems to be some outdated library shipped with
Hgpovray38 source. (meaning not corresponding to the one used by the code)


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From: clipka
Subject: Re: POV-Ray Installation thread
Date: 28 May 2021 13:56:42
Message: <60b12eda$1@news.povray.org>
Am 28.05.2021 um 19:02 schrieb Mr:

> About boost dependencies, there seems to be some outdated library shipped with
> Hgpovray38 source. (meaning not corresponding to the one used by the code)

You might want to mention that in povray.unofficial.patches, and/or prod 


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From: jr
Subject: Re: POV-Ray Installation thread
Date: 29 May 2021 03:00:00
Message: <web.60b1e62b2344a9a179819d986cde94f1@news.povray.org>
hi,

clipka <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:
> ...
> If you really want to improve the installation documentation situation,
> my suggestion would be to help us (*) improve `unix/README.md` (which
> constitutes THE authoritative quick-install instructions for Linux and
> other Unixoids) and `unix/install.txt` (wich currently constitutes THE
> authoritative detailed documentation of the installation process for
> such platforms).

good thought.  I tend to simply download a tarball, so will have a look at the
included readme/install/etc files in the coming days.


> POV-Ray wants SDL for display.

only because of a brain-dead (imo) decision to make 3.7 onwards dependent on it.
 brain-dead, but reversible[*].


> SDL, as the full name "Simple Direct Media Layer" implies, does more
> than just display.

_exactly_  however, all it is used for is the preview window.  so what's the
point of joystick control and audio output, etc?


> SDL wants stuff, too.

again, for what (POV-Ray) gain?


[*] as, eg, the 'povr' branch does.


regards, jr.


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From: William F Pokorny
Subject: Re: POV-Ray Installation thread
Date: 29 May 2021 09:01:31
Message: <60b23b2b$1@news.povray.org>
On 5/29/21 2:58 AM, jr wrote:
>> POV-Ray wants SDL for display.
> only because of a brain-dead (imo) decision to make 3.7 onwards dependent on it.
 >
>   brain-dead, but reversible[*].
> 
>> SDL, as the full name "Simple Direct Media Layer" implies, does more
>> than just display.
 >
> _exactly_   however, all it is used for is the preview window.  so what's the
> point of joystick control and audio output, etc? 
> 
>> SDL wants stuff, too.
> again, for what (POV-Ray) gain?

As Thorsten has reminded me of on a few occasions - very often, at the 
time the coding was done there were reasons for why it was done as it 
was (ie DBL,SNGL). I'm fairly sure this was the case with the use of 
Simple DirectMedia over x11 for v3.7.

Time makes fools of us all. Except with fashion, where if you keep that 
ugly jacket long enough...

> 
> [*] as, eg, the 'povr' branch does.

True, povr has again made x11 the default preview display, but!

---
First, to be certain credit is apportioned properly - nearly all the 

He'd added it to hgpovray38 and I've used his code in the povr branch.

---
Why am I still interested in SDL2.0? Well, SDL2.0 is the version of 
library actively developed and there are a few obscure bugs with 1.2. 
However, my main interest IS that SDL2.0 has many capabilities we are 
not today using - but perhaps could.

There is, for example, the potential to push some work onto available 
GPUs via its library interface - something where that library handles 
the complications of GPU support over time. Likely nothing near ray 
tracing on GPUs, but perhaps off loading sub tasks to the GPU. Image 
buffering, scaling, rtr snapshots to files, image file creation? I don't 
know what might fly.

At the time of my initial interest in SDL2.0, it was also that it - like 
SDL1.2 - ran on Windows(1). My thinking was we could perhaps get to a 
command line only unix/linux like compiled release for Windows with at 
least a preview display.

(1) - Practically, given I know so little about windows programming, 
this will probably never happen for my povr branch, but, who knows.

It's true with Simple DirectMedia Layer, you get a huge set of 
dependencies(2) - and many won't statically link, but that's becoming 
more true of image libraries too over time.

(2) - There are reduced set versions like that used on the Raspberry Pis.

Anyhow...

Bill P.


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From: jr
Subject: Re: POV-Ray Installation thread
Date: 29 May 2021 12:05:00
Message: <web.60b265a82344a9a179819d986cde94f1@news.povray.org>
hi,

William F Pokorny <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:
> On 5/29/21 2:58 AM, jr wrote:
> > ...
> > [*] as, eg, the 'povr' branch does.
>
> True, povr has again made x11 the default preview display, but!
>
> ---
> First, to be certain credit is apportioned properly - nearly all the
>
> He'd added it to hgpovray38 and I've used his code in the povr branch.
>

had not known that the X code came from LeForgeron/hgpovray, had assumed the v
3.6 code served as base.

the good thing though is that, irrespective of my .. uncharitable views on
abandoning X in v 3.7 (and "bloat-ware"), the work both of you have done should
make it (relatively) straightforward to introduce the same non-SDL configuration
choices for POV-Ray[*].


regards, jr.

[*] I run one machine headless, and I _like_ the way the (povr) X Window scales
itself to proper dimensions when it displays on the desktop.  (the SDL window
doesn't)


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From: William F Pokorny
Subject: Re: POV-Ray Installation thread
Date: 29 May 2021 16:43:08
Message: <60b2a75c$1@news.povray.org>
On 5/29/21 12:02 PM, jr wrote:
> hi,
> 
> William F Pokorny <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:
>> On 5/29/21 2:58 AM, jr wrote:
>>> ...
>>> [*] as, eg, the 'povr' branch does.
>>
>> True, povr has again made x11 the default preview display, but!
>>
>> ---
>> First, to be certain credit is apportioned properly - nearly all the
>>
>> He'd added it to hgpovray38 and I've used his code in the povr branch.
>>

Interesting. Text around Jerome's name is gone. It's there when I look 
at my original post...

...


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From: jr
Subject: Re: POV-Ray Installation thread
Date: 1 Jun 2021 07:05:00
Message: <web.60b6134f2344a9a179819d986cde94f1@news.povray.org>
hi,

> clipka <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:
> > ...
> > If you really want to improve the installation documentation situation,
> > my suggestion would be to help us (*) improve `unix/README.md` (which
> > constitutes THE authoritative quick-install instructions for Linux and
> > other Unixoids) and `unix/install.txt` (wich currently constitutes THE
> > authoritative detailed documentation of the installation process for
> > such platforms).
>
> good thought.  I tend to simply download a tarball, so will have a look at the
> included readme/install/etc files in the coming days.

have only found time for cursory reading so far.  the 'unix/*' readme + install
files, on the whole, are ok.  there's some .. rubbish, like the talk about
"*-dev" packages, which makes no sense when you get the source tarball from the
author(s).  (and on some OS' "*-dev" makes no sense at all)  anyway, will find
more time in the coming days (I hope) and post/send my $0.02.


regards, jr.


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From: jr
Subject: Re: POV-Ray Installation thread
Date: 1 Jun 2021 07:05:00
Message: <web.60b613d12344a9a179819d986cde94f1@news.povray.org>
hi,

William F Pokorny <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:
> ...
> Interesting. Text around Jerome's name is gone. It's there when I look
> at my original post...

also ok when you use a RSS reader.  it's the web interface which has ..
unresolved issues with umlauts and accents.


regards, jr.


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From: tth
Subject: Re: POV-Ray Installation thread
Date: 5 Jun 2021 11:59:35
Message: <60bb9f67$1@news.povray.org>
On 5/28/21 10:02 AM, clipka wrote:
> 
> Or, on some odd quirky system, they may not be able to use `sudo`, and 
> instead need to start a new shell session with `su`, run `make install` 
> in there, and exit it again. 

   $ su -c 'make install'


tTh

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