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Nicolas George wrote:
> My point is to show that, although it is not possible to keep exactly the
> same syntax as the current one, it is possible to use a real programming
> language while keeping the syntactic noise very low.
If we're going to re appropriate an existing language, maybe we could
look at some of the functional languages (Lisp, ML, etc.).
I don't normally like functional programming, but it does strike me as a
good match for describing scenes.
- --
William Tracy
afi### [at] gmail com wtr### [at] calpolyedu
You know you've been raytracing too long when you're starting to find
these quotes more unsettling than funny.
-- Alex McLeod a.k.a. Giant Robot Messiah
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Alain wrote:
> nemesis nous apporta ses lumieres en ce 2007/09/19 17:10:
>> "Zeger Knaepen" <zeg### [at] povplacecom> wrote:
>>> I mean: as it is now, POV-SDL has a C-like syntax. I think it would
>>> be a
>>> very bad idea to change the POV-SDL into a BASIC-like syntax, or a
>>> Python-like syntax
>>
>> hey, how about pretty much no syntax at all?
>>
>> (union (plane y (pigment (checker 0 1)))
>> (sphere 0 1
>> (texture (pigment (rgb x))
>> (finish (phong 0.8 30)))))
>> (light-source white (* 5 #(-1 1 -1)))
>> (camera (z -3) 0)
>>
>> well, except for Lots of Irritating Silly Parentheses, that is... :)
>>
> Makes me think of Lisp! TONS of parenteses ;-)
>
Look more closely at his last sentence. Especially the capital
letters... ;)
Jerome
- --
+------------------------- Jerome M. BERGER ---------------------+
| mailto:jeb### [at] freefr | ICQ: 238062172 |
| http://jeberger.free.fr/ | Jabber: jeb### [at] jabberfr |
+---------------------------------+------------------------------+
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William Tracy <wtr### [at] calpolyedu> wrote:
> If we're going to re appropriate an existing language, maybe we could
> look at some of the functional languages (Lisp, ML, etc.).
Next you are going to suggest Haskell.
--
- Warp
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Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:
> William Tracy <wtr### [at] calpolyedu> wrote:
> > If we're going to re appropriate an existing language, maybe we could
> > look at some of the functional languages (Lisp, ML, etc.).
>
> Next you are going to suggest Haskell.
>
> --
> - Warp
oh boy! this is getting exciting! I just hope someone doesn't mention java
or .net... and while haskell is rather nice, to get any performance with it
you need the friggin huge GHC compiler!
come on! let's be realistic: the SDL just needs a scripting language with
small foorprint, high performance and syntax and semantics flexible enough
to allow for easy DSL creation (SDL). And this most likely mean AST
interpreters or similar.
I like Scheme but I understand there's not really any interpreter for it out
there that matches these requirements, and of course many people are put
down by the parentheses as much as are put down by python indented blocks
or perl's cryptic nature. I guess Lisp macros are wonderful for DSL
building, which is a shame.
Python and Perl are pretty heavy by now. Lua or Tcl are more lightweight.
Lua is a lot more modern and well supported than Tcl these days. Anything
else which doesn't require a java VM or .NET?
As far as I understand, the purpose about this discussion is not really
about having a completely new SDL with new syntax, but mostly to alleviate
the need for a builtin and complex C parser maintained by povray
developers. And of course, putting more power in the hands of those who
want more than basic SDL, ifs and loops by leveraging a complete and well
supported external programming language...
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nemesis <nam### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> As far as I understand, the purpose about this discussion is not really
> about having a completely new SDL with new syntax, but mostly to alleviate
> the need for a builtin and complex C parser maintained by povray
> developers.
This would support a C(++)-like syntax, and may be as efficient as lua:
http://www.angelcode.com/angelscript/
--
- Warp
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andrel wrote:
> David Buck wrote:
> [snip]
>>
>> Discussion is welcome.
>>
> Something that I think has not been mentioned in this discussion so far
> (unless I accidentally skipped it):
> One of the interesting things of POV is that it is a great environment
> to learn maths. Often you want to position two objects in such a way
> that they touch each other or such that the combined surface is
> continuous or... You can do this by trial and error, but soon you'll end
> up motivated to learn how to solve a particular second order equation or
> some equation involving sin() or tan().
> Whatever direction a new SDL is going to take, it would be great if the
> simplest subset could (still) be used in a high school math class. The
> only thing we then need is someone to write something like 'Mindstorms
> for high school students'.
>
There is a lot more that I would want to say, but I find this format of
discussing in a subthread a bit confusing. I am not sure if a wiki is
the right solution, but I'd really like a discussion forum where we
could combine remarks by subject.
Can someone set something up somewhere?
If not, I might feel forced to sift through this mess again to collect
all arguments and put them on a simple html page, but be aware that that
one will be highly biased and not changeable by others ;)
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Jérôme M. Berger nous apporta ses lumieres en ce 2007/09/20 14:41:
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> Hash: SHA1
>
> Alain wrote:
>> nemesis nous apporta ses lumieres en ce 2007/09/19 17:10:
>>> "Zeger Knaepen" <zeg### [at] povplacecom> wrote:
>>>> I mean: as it is now, POV-SDL has a C-like syntax. I think it would
>>>> be a
>>>> very bad idea to change the POV-SDL into a BASIC-like syntax, or a
>>>> Python-like syntax
>>> hey, how about pretty much no syntax at all?
>>>
>>> (union (plane y (pigment (checker 0 1)))
>>> (sphere 0 1
>>> (texture (pigment (rgb x))
>>> (finish (phong 0.8 30)))))
>>> (light-source white (* 5 #(-1 1 -1)))
>>> (camera (z -3) 0)
>>>
>>> well, except for Lots of Irritating Silly Parentheses, that is... :)
>>>
>> Makes me think of Lisp! TONS of parenteses ;-)
>>
> Look more closely at his last sentence. Especially the capital
> letters... ;)
>
> Jerome
It makes for a nice alternative for LISP, but not what the creators had in mind ;-)
Similar to:
I Built a Monster
It's Beter Manualy
The legend tell that those where from peoples working in THAT compagny...
--
Alain
-------------------------------------------------
I went to a massage parlor. It was self service.
Rodney Dangerfield
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Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:
> William Tracy <wtr### [at] calpolyedu> wrote:
> > If we're going to re appropriate an existing language, maybe we could
> > look at some of the functional languages (Lisp, ML, etc.).
>
> Next you are going to suggest Haskell.
>
> --
> - Warp
BTW, just saw this in reddit:
http://www.nobugs.org/developer/htrace/index.html
though it's just a toy raytracer from 2001...
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andrel wrote:
> Can someone set something up somewhere?
Can someone recommend specific Wiki software?
It'd need to support external authentication (to link in to the POV user
registration system), and captchas or other anti-spam measures.
Anyone have any experience with this?
Alternatively if someone here wants to undertake to maintain an official
POV wiki and has some experience in site management, let me know and I'll
set them up with some webspace on the povray.org server and let them loose.
-- Chris
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On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 17:47:45 +1000, Chris Cason
<del### [at] deletethistoopovrayorg> wrote:
>Can someone recommend specific Wiki software?
Some time ago, I set up MediaWiki at work for use as a company-wide wiki. It's the
same one used for Wikipedia. It works very well. At the time, it was the best one
out there. This may still be
the case...
http://www.mediawiki.org/
>It'd need to support external authentication (to link in to the POV user
>registration system), and captchas or other anti-spam measures.
I believe there are extensions written for MediaWiki that support these requirements.
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