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"clipka" <ano### [at] anonymous org> schreef in bericht
news:4ac4de1a$1@news.povray.org...
> Did you know, for instance, how they get fresh water into the boiler while
> "under steam"? I mean, they can't just open a lid and pour water in, can
> they?
>
> Even more astonishing is the fact that the device they use to accomplish
> this has /zero/ moving parts. And to top it off, the device essentially
> works by using the boiler's steam /pressure/ to have the fresh water
> /sucked/ in.
>
Fascinating. Totally subjective of course, but I think steam engines are
more interesting than modern car engines. They have a raw and primitive
aura, and at the same time a simple efficiency.
Thomas
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clipka wrote:
> Perfectly black thermodynamics magic, as far as I'm concerned
I didn't know this but I think it's the same principle used
in some types of liquid atomizers, e.g. perfume bottles:
http://www.funsci.com/fun3_en/exper2/exper2_30.gif
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On Fri, 2 Oct 2009 10:15:57 +0200, "Thomas de Groot"
<tDOTdegroot@interDOTnlANOTHERDOTnet> wrote:
>Fascinating. Totally subjective of course, but I think steam engines are
>more interesting than modern car engines.
A block of concrete is more interesting than a modern car engine. At least
aesthetically :)
--
Regards
Stephen
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> clipka wrote:
>
>> Perfectly black thermodynamics magic, as far as I'm concerned
>
> I didn't know this but I think it's the same principle used
> in some types of liquid atomizers, e.g. perfume bottles:
> http://www.funsci.com/fun3_en/exper2/exper2_30.gif
Somewhat similar, but not exactly the same principle.
Alain
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"Stephen" <mcavoysAT@aolDOTcom> schreef in bericht
news:unqbc55gursjs3k7dfke6frjl9nk0mnhjo@4ax.com...
> A block of concrete is more interesting than a modern car engine. At least
> aesthetically :)
LOL
Thomas
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clipka <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:
> More structural members added.
>
I love the detail you've been creating here and I know (in some small way) the
temptations for detail that a steam loco can lead one on to! Do you have any
updates for us to enjoy?
I'm not a steam buff but for a project I and some friends are working on I
"modelled" a couple of steam locos and some rolling stock over the last year.
One of the main difficulties I found was that drawings are scarce and I had to
work from photos a lot. What this meant was that I didn't have the data to model
much of the substructure and chassis elements - and to be honest, I wasn't that
tempted to try!! You seem to have better drawings?? What loco is it?
I say "modelled" in quotes as my coding style is a tad shambolic and I tend
towards a sort of "lego" approach to things but at the start of this thread you
mentioned difficulties with complex cast iron items and I sort of glossed over
those by approximating with round boxes and so on. The worst part being the
slidey thing behind the main piston.
I was also be interested in your approach to the chimney and steam valve covers
- you used blobs there? I'm afraid I went traitorous and used jpatch for a mesh
object I (sort of) manipulated to fit. I also used jpatch for the firebox main
object.
Anyway - for your amusement I attach one of the loco renders.
--
Crayons
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Attachments:
Download 'locoandtender.jpg' (241 KB)
Preview of image 'locoandtender.jpg'
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Crayons wrote:
> clipka <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:
>> More structural members added.
>>
>
> I love the detail you've been creating here and I know (in some small way) the
> temptations for detail that a steam loco can lead one on to! Do you have any
> updates for us to enjoy?
Christoph is on vacation ATM and may not reply for a while. I like your
train, nice.
Bye the way, do you know this blueprint site?
http://www.the-blueprints.com/blueprints/trains/
--
Best Regards,
Stephen
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Crayons schrieb:
> I love the detail you've been creating here and I know (in some small way) the
> temptations for detail that a steam loco can lead one on to! Do you have any
> updates for us to enjoy?
I did some more work on it in October, but didn't find time to post any
updates, as I was busy making the deadline for the TC-RTC "Across the
Plains" round:
http://www.tc-rtc.co.uk/imagenewdisplay/stills/index256.html
These days I might post some interim shots created during that time.
> You seem to have better drawings?? What loco is it?
It's a USRA/Baldwin "Heavy Santa Fe" (a late-WW1 2-10-2 heavy drag
freight engine featuring the uncommon Southern valve gear), which I
chose mainly because of the particularly detailed blueprints I found on
the Wikimedia Commons
(http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Line_drawings_of_steam_locomotives).
Main "input" was that very blueprint
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5e/USRA_Heavy_Santa_Fe_diagram.jpg)
as well as the similarly good blueprints for its smaller kins, the
"Light Santa Fe", "Heavy Mikado" and "Light Mikado", which - despite the
different dimensions - occasionally provided somewhat better insight
into a few details (though unfortunately the Mikado types were of no
help regarding the valve gear, as they used the Walschaert type instead).
Other sources were numerous photographs from the web, both of USRA
locomotives and others; some site that sells parts for a 1.6" scale
"Heavy Mikado" model proved very helpful, too
(http://www.livesteam.com/heavymikado/AAheavymikadopricelist.html).
> I say "modelled" in quotes as my coding style is a tad shambolic and I tend
> towards a sort of "lego" approach to things but at the start of this thread you
> mentioned difficulties with complex cast iron items and I sort of glossed over
> those by approximating with round boxes and so on. The worst part being the
> slidey thing behind the main piston.
Looks like a pretty good model to me.
> I was also be interested in your approach to the chimney and steam valve covers
> - you used blobs there? I'm afraid I went traitorous and used jpatch for a mesh
> object I (sort of) manipulated to fit. I also used jpatch for the firebox main
> object.
I actually found blobs easier to use than trying to model a suitable
mesh (I would have used Wings3D for that).
Christoph
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clipka wrote:
> I did some more work on it in October, but didn't find time to post any
> updates, as I was busy making the deadline for the TC-RTC "Across the
> Plains" round:
> These days I might post some interim shots created during that time.
That would be good, I look forward to them. Good luck with the competition too!
> > You seem to have better drawings?? What loco is it?
>
> It's a USRA/Baldwin "Heavy Santa Fe" (a late-WW1 2-10-2 heavy drag
> freight engine featuring the uncommon Southern valve gear), which I
> chose mainly because of the particularly detailed blueprints I found on
> the Wikimedia Commons
Ah, interesting. Not being a train enthsiast as such I often wonder why trains
such as these contain so much complexity in comparison to others. While at the
same time not being sure if I would understand the answer if someone gave me a
lecture on it! The quantity of linkages involved seems rather overboard.
The train I modelled is a modified Hall Class from the Great Western Railway and
I only had one basic overall blueprint of the dimensions to work from
http://www.greatwestern.org.uk/loco_draw.htm
Consequently much of the detail is from photographs. One was a part on the
rear of the main steam pipe to the cylinder, I just called it "brassything" in
the code as I had no idea what it was. I actually ended up contacting the Train
Manager for one of the preserved trains who told me it was called a "Snifting
Valve" and sent me detailed pictures of the real thing. I wasn't far wrong.
> Other sources were numerous photographs from the web, both of USRA
> locomotives and others;
Indeed! I downloaded as many as I could find but sadly everyone seems to take
that same picture, from in front a few yards up the station platform! What was
really helpful was actually contacting a train forum and asking there for what I
called more "pornographic" pictures of details under the platform as it were! I
got some very good images sent to me that way. One particular area that I was
struggling with was underneath the footplate steps to the cabin area. I knew
there was a sandbox there but only blurry images of that whole area. I managed
to concoct the attached image from images from one very helpful chap in
particular.
> > I was also be interested in your approach to the chimney and steam valve covers
> > - you used blobs there? I'm afraid I went traitorous and used jpatch for a mesh
> > object I (sort of) manipulated to fit. I also used jpatch for the firebox main
> > object.
>
> I actually found blobs easier to use than trying to model a suitable
> mesh (I would have used Wings3D for that).
Curious. I'll have a look at Wings3D. The main problem area as you'd expect was
the smooth junction between the vertical and horizontal cylinders which I
haven't quite got right.
I guess I concur with the earlier posting asking whether the bevelled edges code
element is likely to become available???
cheers!
Olly
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Attachments:
Download 'brakesanall.jpg' (215 KB)
Preview of image 'brakesanall.jpg'
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Crayons schrieb:
> Ah, interesting. Not being a train enthsiast as such I often wonder why trains
> such as these contain so much complexity in comparison to others. While at the
> same time not being sure if I would understand the answer if someone gave me a
> lecture on it! The quantity of linkages involved seems rather overboard.
There's probably one simple reason why your train doesn't exhibit that
many rods and things: The valve gear (the subset of the rods controlling
the steam valve timing) is probably hidden well behind the wheels.
Later trains also added more complexity to the valve gear for
improvements; the valve gear of all but the earliest locomotives allowed
for variation in the valve timing - primarily to switch between forward
and backward motion, but also to "throttle" the engine's power to save
fuel when the train was well in motion. In earlier designs, the
necessary mechanism took quite some space, and included motions that
resulted in a lot of wear and tear, and/or required much human power to
change the valve setting. Later designs took care of all these problems,
but of course were somewhat more complex.
As for the other "greebles" on a train, those typically feature...:
- Valves to drain condensed water from the cylinders (typically two
below each cylinder)
- Pipes to feed fresh water into the boiler (later engines were legally
required to have two independent water feeding systems, as a lack of
enough water in the boiler would almost inevitably lead to a boiler
explosion, due to melting of the firebox; often, feedwater was inserted
at the front of the boiler, away from the firebox; fun fact: The
standard device used for this purpose used the pressure in the boiler to
feed water /into/ it... black magic to me, but it must have worked!)
- Sandboxes and associated pipes (most trains carried the sandboxes on
top of the boiler, with pipework leading to the wheels, plus some
pipework for steam, as many used steam pressure to assist in sanding)
- Pipework (and valves of course) to blow steam directly into the
smokestack, bypassing the cylinders, to draw air through the firebox
while standing still or moving slowly
- Mechanical brakes and associated gearwork (usually hidden between the
wheels)
- Systems for automatic lubrication of the cylinders (seen in later engines)
- Systems to generate dry pressurized air for the automatic brakes that
became mandatory in later times (typically a steam-driven compressor, a
few cylindrical pressurized air tanks usually situated beneath the
catwalk along the boiler, and /lots/ of pipework leading back and forth,
with the sole purpose of cooling the air)
- Systems to generate electricity for the electric lights on later trains
- Systems to automatically feed coal into the firebox (on very heavy
engines; the USRA Santa Fe features such a system)
- Systems to automatically pick up water from trenches between or beside
the track (on some engines) to reduce the number of required stops.
- Maybe one or two other systems I forgot to mention (or don't even know
about)
> The train I modelled is a modified Hall Class from the Great Western Railway and
> I only had one basic overall blueprint of the dimensions to work from
> http://www.greatwestern.org.uk/loco_draw.htm
That's not as much as I had, but at least it features dimensions. I've
seen far worse that still called themselves "blueprints".
> Indeed! I downloaded as many as I could find but sadly everyone seems to take
> that same picture, from in front a few yards up the station platform! What was
> really helpful was actually contacting a train forum and asking there for what I
> called more "pornographic" pictures of details under the platform as it were! I
> got some very good images sent to me that way. One particular area that I was
> struggling with was underneath the footplate steps to the cabin area. I knew
> there was a sandbox there but only blurry images of that whole area. I managed
> to concoct the attached image from images from one very helpful chap in
> particular.
Looks like you got hold of some real "hardcore porn" ;-)
So far I have limited myself to "softporn" readily available on the net.
> I guess I concur with the earlier posting asking whether the bevelled edges code
> element is likely to become available???
It is pretty likely to; give it some time though.
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