On Fri, 05 Sep 2008 14:23:56 -0400, Jim Charter <jrc### [at] msncom> wrote:

> I'm up for it.

I don't know if I am but I'll give it ago :)
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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On 06-Sep-08 3:54, Shay wrote:
> andrel wrote:
> 
>> I get an idea, implement a user interface to adjust a group of
>> splines. Add the symmetry constraints. Write an export to blender,
>> compose a partial scene. Export to POV to see if it works. Get them
>> printed. Create molds and some other things to make ceramic copies.
>> Find out that they too easily fall over because I forgot to check
>> where the center of gravity is :( . Redo in a somewhat larger size
>> adding a few extra challenges.
> 
> Whoa! And here I am belly-aching that I spend so much time sitting on my 
> butt staring at vim! A lot of work, but your results are one of a kind.

I think you might actually spend more time on your product. The 
similarity is in it that I also do get accused of overkill sometimes.
> 
>>> I remember seeing these in p.o-t, but don't remember an explanation. 
>>> Very cool. My mind is flooding with possibilities.
>>
>> Machine reads the STL format, basically yet another triangle format, 
>> so that could be just your thing.
> 
> Here's what I'm thinking: print a small sub-section of this 
> (http://tinyurl.com/5s5nbm) earlier model, make a mold around the print, 
> pour resin or ceramic (I've got a kiln), and glue the many pieces 
> together into a complete sculpture. What do you think?
> 
Difficult, but doable. You'd have to position the cuts that have to be 
glued together very precise. Either where you just won't see them in the 
finished model, or where you have enough access to polish the seams. The 
mold also probably has to consist of several parts, because you have to 
take the thing apart to get your piece of of it. That'll be a whole new 
level of planning. I think the mold for this latest model would be more 
easy. Ceramics tends to deform when drying. This building block is more 
or less planar, so you can let it dry between planks to keep it in 
shape. Resin has the advantage that it does not deform and that rubber 
molds may be used. Ceramic does deform when drying out, but you can glue 
it with clay before firing it, so you can have a seamless result.

All in all, I think that whatever you do it'll be a lot of fun and will 
take more than a lot of time to get it right. Perhaps starting with 
something that you design with physical construction in mind would be my 
advice. Don't worry, even that'll go wrong the first few times if you 
are lucky.

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"St." <dot### [at] dotcom> wrote in message news:48c24944$1@news.povray.org...
>
> "Shay" <sha### [at] nonenone> wrote in message 
> news:48c1e358$1@news.povray.org...
>
>> Here's what I'm thinking: print a small sub-section of this 
>> (http://tinyurl.com/5s5nbm) earlier model, make a mold around the print, 
>> pour resin or ceramic (I've got a kiln), and glue the many pieces 
>> together into a complete sculpture. What do you think?
>
>    Hey Shay, wonderful work, as always!

     I'll take that back and replace it with wonderful *and* Masterful work.

>    How many components are in this image?

      After studying it most of the day, I'd wager not as many as I think 
overall. There are two initial components, both with three arms each.

       How you put that together Shay, I just can't begin to imagine...

         Do I get a toffee?  ;)

        (Oh, and *I* do like the colours).  ;)

          ~Steve~

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On 06-Sep-08 11:25, Stephen wrote:
> On Fri, 05 Sep 2008 14:15:13 -0400, Jim Charter <jrc### [at] msncom> wrote:
> 
>> Craftsmanship is quite important to me though.
> 
> Firstly, Shay: your image is stunning.
> 
> I've had difficulty starting this reply (lie, I've had no difficulty starting
> just keeping my thoughts in a straight line). As Thomas points out some art is
> appreciated not just for its beauty but for the work that went into making it.
> Knowing that an old artisan spent his entire life polishing one piece of jade
> into a shape makes that artefact more "worthy" than if it were carved then
> polished in a fraction of the time. I don't think so! Is it better to look at a
> naturally beautiful woman (or man or sheep) than to look at one who uses
> artifice to make herself beautiful? (Note the pejorative use of the word
> artifice.)

> thinking something is beautiful so it is subjective IMO ipso facto it must be
> true 'cause I used a Latin phrase.
> 
> I say that Shay's work is beautiful whether he spent months working on it or
> not.
> But if he had not spent the time designing and developing it. It would not be
> the same piece of work. He did what was needed in this case.
There is another thing to note here. That is that true art shapes the 
artist as well as the other way around. Shay is not the same guy anymore 
as he was a few years ago. Because Shay chose to do everything by hand 
and not use any modelling tools, he now knows more about symmetry of 
dodecahedra and 2nd and 3rd order continuity of triangles than most of 
us, even probably all of us. Here I used 'knows' because I don't know 
what other English word to use. I mean not just knowing in the high 
school sense of the word, but knowledge that becomes part of your being. 
One day it starts affecting his life. He won't be able to see a new 
design for a car, boat, bike or sculpture without immediately seeing the 
flaws in the way different parts are connected. At the point where he 
starts applying this to his wife he will be in trouble.

Although many of us could re-create something like his images in less 
time than he did[*] using other tools, the point is that we wouldn't. We 
have the technical ability but not the right frame of mind. So we can 
and at the same time we can't.

> Art needs skill, juvenilia needs salesmen.
> 
> Shay, are you still on the rigs? And are you having fun during the hurricane
> season?

[*] possibly that is not even true. We could get close very fast, but 
then every step closer would take an increasing amount of time. Most 
would give up at 98% because they would not be willing to spend so much 
time on getting it really right.

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On Sun, 07 Sep 2008 11:15:29 +0200, andrel <a_l### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:

>There is another thing to note here. That is that true art shapes the 
>artist as well as the other way around

I could not agree with you more. 
I think that the word that you are looking for is internalise or even "grok"
from Robert A. Heinlein's Stranger in a Strange Land.

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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"Stephen" <mcavoysAT@aolDOTcom> schreef in bericht 
news:h8j7c452ld5s20hjf7d37l5svogc1hbh44@4ax.com...
>
>>There is another thing to note here. That is that true art shapes the
>>artist as well as the other way around
>
> I could not agree with you more.
> I think that the word that you are looking for is internalise or even 
> "grok"
> from Robert A. Heinlein's Stranger in a Strange Land.
>

And I totally agree with both of you.
"grok" should be introduced officially in English (or in any language for 
that matter). I think this describes perfectly the process Andrel writes 
about.

Thomas

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St. wrote:
> I would make it out of pewter <snip> This is something you could
> do yourself and you wouldn't need a kiln, just a propane tank, the
> right torch and some Delft Clay:

Sounds extremely reckless for the inexperienced. I'm in!

> How many components are in this image?

Many. That' why I think this one is best made from wood. I could cut out 
the components with the laser engraver in a couple of hours. I do want 
to try pewter, ceramic, and resin, however, with some more appropriate 
designs.

Could I pour the plates out of pewter and then fold them over a rounded 
corner?

  -Shay

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St. wrote:

> I'll take that back and replace it with wonderful *and* Masterful
> work.

Thank you.

> After studying it most of the day, I'd wager not as many as I
> think overall. There are two initial components, both with three
> arms each.
> Do I get a toffee?  ;)

You do.

> (Oh, and *I* do like the colours).  ;)

So do I; Nothing wrong with mustard yellow in my book. But I have/do 
acknowledge issues with the renders of all three. Another reason I feel 
it best to continue with sculptures.

  -Shay

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andrel wrote:

>> Here's what I'm thinking: print a small sub-section of this
>> (http://tinyurl.com/5s5nbm) earlier model, make a mold around the
>> print, pour resin or ceramic (I've got a kiln), and glue the many
>> pieces together into a complete sculpture. What do you think?

> Difficult, but doable. You'd have to position the cuts that have
> to be glued together very precise. Either where you just won't see
> them in the finished model, or where you have enough access to
> polish the seams. The mold also probably has to consist of several
> parts, because you have to take the thing apart to get your piece
> of of it. That'll be a whole new level of planning. I think the
> mold for this latest model would be more easy. Ceramics tends to
> deform when drying. This building block is more or less planar, so
> you can let it dry between planks to keep it in shape. Resin has
> the advantage that it does not deform and that rubber molds may be
> used. Ceramic does deform when drying out, but you can glue it
> with clay before firing it, so you can have a seamless result.

Not very concerned with seams, so it sounds like resin would be best for 
this one.

I very much want to try ceramic, however. My family have always kept 
very busy with hobbies. I grew up around canning, woodwork, gardening, 
home-spun wool and angora (from our own sheep, goats, and rabbits), and 
ceramic. I'm thinking now about another design with slightly dished 
plates. These could be held between bowls rather than planks when 
drying. Or, just something where a bit of deformation won't hurt.

  -Shay

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Stephen wrote:

> Is it better to look at a naturally beautiful woman (or man or
> sheep) than to look at one who uses artifice to make herself
> beautiful? (Note the pejorative use of the word artifice.)

Life isn't all about beauty. I'd look across the street to see a 
beautiful girl, but I'd walk across the street to see Pan Qing Fu's 
(anything but beautiful) knuckles.

  -Shay

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