Stefan Viljoen <spamnot@ nous apporta ses lumieres en ce 2005-08-05 16:55:
> PM 2Ring spake:
> 
> 
>>Stefan Viljoen <spamnot@<removethis>polard.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Hi guys
>>>
>>>A cosine surface done with k3dsurf, and my very first rendering with
>>>radiosity (been around for years, o'course, I never got around to it
>>>until yesterday).
>>
>>Wow! I wish my first radiosity pic looked this good, Stefan. Well done!
> 
> 
> Thanks! Sometimes, this hobby feels like cheating - you rustle something up,
> render it and BAM! It looks nice (most of the time...) You just never know
> how it is going to come out - THAT is why I raytrace. Answer undefined!
>  
> 
>>>In flights of fancy, a freon ocean on a small planet in a distant solar
>>>system, with a twinned sun and moon.
>>
>>Is Freon really blue in bulk? Anyway, it looks nice and it does look like
>>a low density liquid to my untrained eyes. :)
> 
> 
> No idea - freon should only be liquid at quite high pressure and thus most
> likely high temperature as well (sucking my thumb a bit here - not a
> scientist, me). Maybe it will be blue? Who knows. I made it blue
> deliberately to subconciously trigger "ocean" in the viewers mind...
> Ommmmm......
> 
> 
>>>Simple planes and a standard povray sky, with a Colefax galaxy and
>>>lensflare.
>>
>>I would expect a planet with a Freon ocean to have *very* severe
>>rainstorms, as the atmosphere attempts to condense at nightfall. :) E.E
>>'Doc' Smith wrote about a planet with a hydrosphere like that, where they
>>had 40 feet of rain every night.
> 
> 
> I really don't know - IMHO at human-livable pressures and temperatures freon
> is a gas, only coalescing at "human-relative" very high pressures. I would
> expect a planet with naturally ocurring freon oceans to have quite a high
> gravity as well, and maybe be as big (or bigger than) Jupiter, for example.
> This might also imply a very hot planet (guessing here) and an absolutely
> lethal environment for an unprotected human. Percipitation seems highly
> unlikely, since that is drivent by waxing and waning solar energy (school
> geography is LONG ago) and not variations in ambient gas pressures...
> 
> But anyway, thanks for the compliment and looking at my pic.
> 
> Kind regards,
You CAN find some freons that are liquid at ambient presure and room temperature!
Freon is a family 
on chloro-fluoro carbons, small molecules  vaporize early while big molecules stay
liquid at much 
higher temperature. Just look at printed circuit boards cleaning, the washer I saw in
a documentary 
had a large sliding transparent pannel that was hand closed over the component to be
cleaned! It 
looked hardly airtight, it was more like a splash guard.
Anyway, you don't want to go on any planet that have freon oceants, whatever that
passes as "air" 
will not be breathable.

Alain

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"Stefan Viljoen polard.com>" <spamnot@<removethis> schreef in bericht
news:42f3b3c6@news.povray.org...
> PM 2Ring spake:
>
> > I knew which Solaris you meant! :) I've only read the novel (many years
> > ago); I'm yet to see the movie.  Trying to do POV images to illustrate
>
> The movie is confusing and a bit of a disappointment. But then, I may have
> below-average intelligence and bad taste...!
>
There are two movies: one by Tarkovsky, which is far the best one but rather
lengthy and sometimes cryptic, but follows well the book; the other is a US
remake from a few years ago, but where the focus is shifted to the love
story. I only saw the first one (and not completely...). From what you
write, I suppose you have seen the Tarkovsky one?  :-)

Thomas

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"PM 2Ring" <nomail@nomail> schreef in bericht
news:web.42f33e32bb739016a196ebe30@news.povray.org...
>
> I would expect a planet with a Freon ocean to have *very* severe
rainstorms,
> as the atmosphere attempts to condense at nightfall. :) E.E 'Doc' Smith
> wrote about a planet with a hydrosphere like that, where they had 40 feet
> of rain every night.
>

Greetings, Lensman...

thomas

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Alain spake:

>> 
>> Kind regards,
> You CAN find some freons that are liquid at ambient presure and room
> temperature! Freon is a family

See? A scientist... :)

> on chloro-fluoro carbons, small molecules  vaporize early while big
> molecules stay liquid at much higher temperature. Just look at printed
> circuit boards cleaning, the washer I saw in a documentary had a large
> sliding transparent pannel that was hand closed over the component to be
> cleaned! It looked hardly airtight, it was more like a splash guard.
> Anyway, you don't want to go on any planet that have freon oceants,
> whatever that passes as "air" will not be breathable.

So I thought... but hey! It's just a piccy...
-- 
Stefan Viljoen
Software Support Technician / Programmer
Polar Design Solutions

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Thomas de Groot spake:

> 
> "Stefan Viljoen polard.com>" <spamnot@<removethis> schreef in bericht
> news:42f3b3c6@news.povray.org...
>> PM 2Ring spake:
>>
>> > I knew which Solaris you meant! :) I've only read the novel (many years
>> > ago); I'm yet to see the movie.  Trying to do POV images to illustrate
>>
>> The movie is confusing and a bit of a disappointment. But then, I may
>> have below-average intelligence and bad taste...!
>>
> There are two movies: one by Tarkovsky, which is far the best one but
> rather lengthy and sometimes cryptic, but follows well the book; the other
> is a US remake from a few years ago, but where the focus is shifted to the
> love story. I only saw the first one (and not completely...). From what
> you
> write, I suppose you have seen the Tarkovsky one?  :-)

Well I only knew of the new American remake - didn't know there was another.
All that was nice about the recent US made one was the music. But, I
suspect, like all films of published books, the film will always
disappoint...
-- 
Stefan Viljoen
Software Support Technician / Programmer
Polar Design Solutions

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Among other things, Stefan Viljoen saw fit to write:

> No idea - freon should only be liquid at quite high pressure and thus most
> likely high temperature as well (sucking my thumb a bit here - not a
> scientist, me).

Usually, to liquefy a gas, you either raise the pressure or lower the
temperature (or both). So no, it can't be a liquid under higher
temperature, unless the effect of the pressure is more important. There are
some substances which melt (from solid to liquid) under pressure (water is
the paramount example), and recently some mixtures have been discovered to
solidify when heated, but I'm not aware of such "strange" behaviours
existing for the liquid/gas conversion.

According to google, some usual freons have boiling points around -30
degrees (Celsius or Fahrenheit, they're the same at -32) at 1 atm, that
means they can be liquid under normal pressure and not too low temperature.

-- 
light_source{9+9*x,1}camera{orthographic look_at(1-y)/4angle 30location
9/4-z*4}light_source{-9*z,1}union{box{.9-z.1+x clipped_by{plane{2+y-4*x
0}}}box{z-y-.1.1+z}box{-.1.1+x}box{.1z-.1}pigment{rgb<.8.2,1>}}//Jellby

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Jellby spake:

> Among other things, Stefan Viljoen saw fit to write:
> 
>> No idea - freon should only be liquid at quite high pressure and thus
>> most likely high temperature as well (sucking my thumb a bit here - not a
>> scientist, me).
> 
> Usually, to liquefy a gas, you either raise the pressure or lower the
> temperature (or both). So no, it can't be a liquid under higher

I stand corrected... but the image still stands... get it? The image still
STANDS...

Geez I suck at 0235 in the morning. 

-- 
Stefan Viljoen
Software Support Technician / Programmer
Polar Design Solutions

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I found this site about Lem's Solaris, with renders of the Ocean in Bryce:

http://www.hansego.de/LEM/Solaris_1972/solaris_1972.html

Interesting. However, I think we can do better in POV :-)

Thomas

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Thomas de Groot spake:

> I found this site about Lem's Solaris, with renders of the Ocean in Bryce:
> 
> http://www.hansego.de/LEM/Solaris_1972/solaris_1972.html
> 
> Interesting. However, I think we can do better in POV :-)
> 
> Thomas

Hmm - those images look pretty nice anyway...

-- 
Stefan Viljoen
Software Support Technician / Programmer
Polar Design Solutions

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"Stefan Viljoen polard.com>" <spamnot@<removethis> schreef in bericht
news:4308cb84@news.povray.org...
>
> Hmm - those images look pretty nice anyway...
>
True. I like them too, and they are pretty close to what Lem describes.
Still... I am thinking about isosurfaces, meshes, and media... I am
currently re-reading the book and I admit that often Lem is confusing or
contradictory in his descriptions of the Ocean, and particularly the strange
artifacts it generates (mimoids, symmetriads, extensors, agilus...).

Thomas

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