On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 16:09:56 -0500, Tim Cook <z99### [at] bellsouthnet> wrote:

> If there were some way to not export the mouth
>inner parts in Poser, I'd do it, but there isn't, and I don't feel
>like doing mesh-diving to physically excise the appropriate data from
>the converted include file.

As a reminder, Tim. If you convert the obj with 3DWin (i/p option by usemtl) it
will separate the mesh into:
object{ P_skin }
object{ P_nipple }
object{ P_lips }
object{ P_eyeBrow }
object{ P_innerMouth }
object{ P_tongue }
object{ P_teeth }
object{ P_lashes }
object{ P_pupil }
object{ P_iris }
object{ P_eyeball }
object{ P_fingerNails }
object{ P_toenail }
Then you can leave out what you want. IIRC earlier versions of PoseRay can do
the sameor similar.
BTW Nice eyes.


Regards
        Stephen

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Stephen McAvoy wrote:
> As a reminder, Tim. If you convert the obj with 3DWin (i/p option by usemtl) it
> will separate the mesh into:
> [snip]
> Then you can leave out what you want. IIRC earlier versions of PoseRay can do
> the sameor similar.

Perhaps, but the matter is not concerning enough to warrant spending
the money to buy 3DWin; I was a good boy and actually gave Lutz the
euros for a legitimate copy of Moray, that's about all the purchasing
of software I can handle in half a year...morally, at least ;)

Besides, at the moment I'm more concerned that I need an interesting
environment, for which with the trivialities of subsurface scattering
will be, at least when the image is taken as a whole, be made
irrelevant.

*beep*

The time is now...06:18:00 EST.

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On Sun, 28 Dec 2003 06:18:00 -0500, Tim Cook <z99### [at] bellsouthnet> wrote:

>Perhaps, but the matter is not concerning enough to warrant spending
>the money to buy 3DWin; I was a good boy and actually gave Lutz the
>euros for a legitimate copy of Moray, that's about all the purchasing
>of software I can handle in half a year...morally, at least ;)

I know what you mean. If Lutz hadn't put that damn nag screen on Moray I don't
know what I would have done. That and 3DWin are the only things I've bought from
the net.

>Besides, at the moment I'm more concerned that I need an interesting
>environment, for which with the trivialities of subsurface scattering
>will be, at least when the image is taken as a whole, be made
>irrelevant.

Again I know what you mean. One of these days I'll start working on textures :-}

Regards
        Stephen

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Gilles Tran wrote:


> news:3FE### [at] hotmailcom...
> 
>>Subsurface Scattering via media! Those kind of effects could be achieved
>>with media sss.
> 
> 
> The problem is that using media sss on an mesh having an internal structure
> often gives ugly results due to the shadows cast by these structures. The
> face of a Poser model such as this one contains a lot of these structures
> (nose, eyes, mouth), so the sss only works OK on the simpler body parts and
> only when they have enough polys (which caused me a lot of trouble for the
> ISS image last year) :(
> 

Two things.  It seems to me that sub-surface scattering in flesh is a 
slightly different issue than in, say, wax.  The wax is translucent and 
monochromatic.  The particular look of flesh is more involved, what with 
skin pigmentation, skin translucency, and the color(s) of underlaying 
tissues, blood vessels and so on.  I heard one commenter observe that 
the particular glow if Marilyn Monroe's complexion was due to the fine 
fuzz of hair on her face which could "hold" the light.

Gilles, you did some early experiments with Povman and skin shaders. 
Can you tell us in what way it fell short for you?  I mean to give it 
another try if I can dig up the patch, but I would be interested in what 
your thoughts are on it.

-Jim

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z99### [at] bellsouthnet news:3fec1a62@news.povray.org

> have an image

This image do use SSS? Can You please post same image without it - to 
compare?

-- 
#macro g(U,V)(.4*abs(sin(9*sqrt(pow(x-U,2)+pow(y-V,2))))*pow(1-min(1,(sqrt(
pow(x-U,2)+pow(y-V,2))*.3)),2)+.9)#end#macro p(c)#if(c>1)#local l=mod(c,100
);g(2*div(l,10)-8,2*mod(l,10)-8)*p(div(c,100))#else 1#end#end light_source{
y 2}sphere{z*20 9pigment{function{p(26252423)*p(36455644)*p(66656463)}}}//M

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have another image.  5 hours rendertime.

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Attachments:
Download 'nadia body 2.jpg' (30 KB)

Preview of image 'nadia body 2.jpg'

Whats her phone number?.... or does one visit a website directly to "turn
her on"?

Sorry... sick joke of the day... ;`|)


Very nice image btw.  :)




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Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.555 / Virus Database: 347 - Release Date: 23/12/03

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news:3fefc08e@news.povray.org...
> Two things.  It seems to me that sub-surface scattering in flesh is a
> slightly different issue than in, say, wax.  The wax is translucent and
> monochromatic.  The particular look of flesh is more involved, what with
> skin pigmentation, skin translucency, and the color(s) of underlaying
> tissues, blood vessels and so on.

Exactly. In fact, media sss works as it should, it's just that actual skin
structures are not those of a Poser model (fortunately). It works on fingers
or ears, but the entire face is a problem. I'm under the impression that
even a good approximation of this would be just too costly, at least for the
type of machines most of us are using.

> Gilles, you did some early experiments with Povman and skin shaders.
> Can you tell us in what way it fell short for you?  I mean to give it
> another try if I can dig up the patch, but I would be interested in what
> your thoughts are on it.

The main problem, actually, was that they were linked to a specific version
of a specific patch and at one point I just wanted to use 3.5... The old
patch dilemma. In any case I think that the skin shaders (and the whole
renderman shader support) are a great idea, but they obviously needed a lot
of additional work to be completely usable. They worked well but only in a
specific set of lighting conditions and I didn't know enough of the theory
and of the shading language to modify them myself. Skin is a extremely
complex and variable material, and a complete skin shader should be able to
reflect (no pun intended) this.
Here are some quick tests with Vicky 3 and her hi-res textures and bump
maps:
Regular POV 3.5, 3-point lighting :
http://www.oyonale.com/histoire/images/vicky3_test.jpg
MLPov, Kitchen probe HDRI lighting
:http://www.oyonale.com/histoire/images/vicky3_hdri_test.jpg

I tend to believe that POV-Ray code could make good skin textures but more
control is needed on the finish. What I think is missing is the possibility
to tweak specularity by having more control on the falloff curve and on the
illumination type. Also sorely missing in regular POV is an angle of
incidence pattern (it's in MLPov) which is extremely useful for more more
things than reflection (where it exists in 3.5). Below is the same Vicky,
this time in Cinema 4D with HDRI and specularity and aoi tweaks. It could be
better but it's getting there (and I'm a newbie so there's ample room for
progress).
http://www.oyonale.com/histoire/images/vicky3_hdri_c4d_test.jpg

Below are details of a series of images I did in POV-Ray 3.5 recently (the
images themselves are not on the site yet), where the characters' skin or
fur were rendered with a faked aoi texture using a slope map linked to the
camera:
http://www.oyonale.com/ldc/images/grandrue_est_bleu_detail1.jpg
http://www.oyonale.com/ldc/images/grandrue_est_detail1.jpg
Note that these images are less "genuine" than the previous tests, since
there was a lot of artifact removal post-render and some compositing.

G.


-- 
**********************
http://www.oyonale.com
**********************
- Graphic experiments
- POV-Ray and Poser computer images
- Posters

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Nice model... great !

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