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On Sun, 7 Mar 2004 16:03:00 +0200, "Severi Salminen"
<sev### [at] NOT_THISsiba fi> wrote:
>> READ THE REST OF THIS FUCKING THREAD. GET ALL OF THE FACTS BEFORE YOU
>> QUACK ON LIKE THAT.
>
>Ok, whatever, pal. You really shouldn't take things that seriously...
I take things seriously when people fuck with my work, pal.
>
>PS. Check your caps-lock functioning.
Don't be a smart-arse. You know full well the purpose of caps in this
case. Get the message. If this is best you can do in response, get
under your rock now.
--------------------------------
My First Subgenius Picture Book:
http://www.imbjr.com
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"IMBJR" <no### [at] spamhere> wrote in message
news:b84m40190ke3kt3boa6ahlgft6inp0bfpd@4ax.com...
> I get pissed off by the stupid isolationist backward thinking that
> obviously takes place here.
Hey, hang on there for a moment and calm down. I don't believe for
one minute that any of the guys and girls here *wouldn't want* a
better file format to show others their images. I for one, certainly
would, and agree with your efforts to show/prove this with JPEG2000.
BUT, sweeping statements like yours above though, Imjer, offend even
me, but then again, who am I? I've been using PoV for only four years,
and I still consider myself as a novice. I'm not a professional pover,
and I know I *never* will be, but I love these groups and the images
posted, and the people here, and the advice and ideas given. To me,
jpg's fine. Hey, most of the time, I don't even see an artifact, so
PNG or JPEG2000 is useless to me!
The whole crux of this is that you should have presented your
argument in a much better way, present your argument and ask something
like, "I'm trying this JPEG2000 format, I think it's better and we
should at least have a look at it - what do you guys think? Can anyone
download it?"
You would have then had the honest answers that you required and
could have moved on further to perhaps complete that goal somehow,
perhaps with support from someone in these groups.
Personally, I think your work is fantastic and wish that you would
post more often, it's not *my* poving style, but nevertheless, I
always wonder how you do such images - you have a great talent there.
KIS. Keep It Simple. I think we're all FOR moving forwards, but
let's take it one step at a time eh...?
~Steve~
imbjr
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On Sun, 7 Mar 2004 20:34:46 -0000, "St." <dot### [at] dotcom> wrote:
>
>"IMBJR" <no### [at] spamhere> wrote in message
>news:b84m40190ke3kt3boa6ahlgft6inp0bfpd@4ax.com...
>
>> I get pissed off by the stupid isolationist backward thinking that
>> obviously takes place here.
>
> Hey, hang on there for a moment and calm down. I don't believe for
>one minute that any of the guys and girls here *wouldn't want* a
>better file format to show others their images.
Judging by the lazy attitudes I'm getting I beg to differ.
>I for one, certainly
>would, and agree with your efforts to show/prove this with JPEG2000.
>BUT, sweeping statements like yours above though, Imjer, offend even
>me, but then again, who am I? I've been using PoV for only four years,
>and I still consider myself as a novice. I'm not a professional pover,
>and I know I *never* will be, but I love these groups and the images
>posted, and the people here, and the advice and ideas given. To me,
>jpg's fine. Hey, most of the time, I don't even see an artifact, so
>PNG or JPEG2000 is useless to me!
You must look closer, they are there I promise you.
>
> The whole crux of this is that you should have presented your
>argument in a much better way, present your argument and ask something
>like, "I'm trying this JPEG2000 format, I think it's better and we
>should at least have a look at it - what do you guys think? Can anyone
>download it?"
I posted an image and mainly all I got was grief and some cheeky
person mangling it. I wasn't even posting it to advocate JPEG2000 -
but that's how it ended. I was merely doing it to preserve the 16-bit
output of the POV scene (though that may now be pointless after at
least some sensible discussion om the subject), but also to minimise
the artifacts.
>
> You would have then had the honest answers that you required and
>could have moved on further to perhaps complete that goal somehow,
>perhaps with support from someone in these groups.
No, my posting just revealed a lot of lazy people with fixed views.
>
> Personally, I think your work is fantastic and wish that you would
>post more often, it's not *my* poving style, but nevertheless, I
>always wonder how you do such images - you have a great talent there.
Cheers. Considering that don't use POV much that's a kind comment.
>
> KIS. Keep It Simple. I think we're all FOR moving forwards, but
>let's take it one step at a time eh...?
Believe you me, I would have thought that was just a single step.
Anyway, this is all moot. It seems that it actually acceptable to post
such images. So where I feel it is required, I will.
>
> ~Steve~
>
>
> imbjr
--------------------------------
My First Subgenius Picture Book:
http://www.imbjr.com
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> >"IMBJR" <no### [at] spamhere> wrote in message
> >news:b99k4014usj4o1eam949s1raru8ni81cpn@4ax.com...
> >> Go on, hide under a shell. We shall pass you by and laugh at the
> >> person who couldn't be bothered with keeping up with developments in
> >> graphics.
> >>
> >Sorry to inform you, but when I want high quality graphics, I use 4800 X
> >3200 bitmaps.
>
> What the --- does the dimensions of an image have anything to do with
> image formats?
Please don't swear in these newsgroups -- think of poor Elsa!
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On Sun, 07 Mar 2004 14:11:02 -0800, Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom>
wrote:
>IMBJR wrote:
>> Software vendors decide? Dear me! I think it should be the fucking
>> customer that decides. Bloody hell, are you lot so bloody meek as to
>> let people like Microsoft dictate to you what you can and cannot do.
>
>Fine. Write a newsreader for us that shows JPEG2000 inline. What's that?
>Too much work? You must be lazy.
No. I would but I have other commitments. Sheesh. You are too lazy to
do it yourself methinks.
>
>> As for convenience as an excuse - I call that laziness.
>
>Then obviously you don't value your own time.
Valuing time is overated. Learn time control.
>
>> The time for politeness is way gone. After having one of my posts
>> mangled by some careless person, you people deserve a piece of my
>> mind.
>
>Careful. There's not much left...
Mind not brain. Learn the difference.
>
>> Why should I when I have the chance to deliver a true 16-bit image?
>
>This has been answered repeatedly in the discussion. Do try to keep up.
Parrot.
>
>> Typical. Another lazy person who can't be bothered to think about it.
>
>I think you mean "can't be bothered to agree with me."
Definately a parrot.
--------------------------------
My First Subgenius Picture Book:
http://www.imbjr.com
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On Sun, 7 Mar 2004 16:12:27 -0600, "Dan P" <dan### [at] yahoocom>
wrote:
>> >"IMBJR" <no### [at] spamhere> wrote in message
>> >news:b99k4014usj4o1eam949s1raru8ni81cpn@4ax.com...
>> >> Go on, hide under a shell. We shall pass you by and laugh at the
>> >> person who couldn't be bothered with keeping up with developments in
>> >> graphics.
>> >>
>> >Sorry to inform you, but when I want high quality graphics, I use 4800 X
>> >3200 bitmaps.
>>
>> What the --- does the dimensions of an image have anything to do with
>> image formats?
>
>Please don't swear in these newsgroups -- think of poor Elsa!
I do not know to whom you refer. Normally, I would not swear, but
experiencing the wave of apathy and lame excuses here makes me eff.
>
--------------------------------
My First Subgenius Picture Book:
http://www.imbjr.com
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On Sun, 07 Mar 2004 14:12:52 -0800, Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom>
wrote:
>IMBJR wrote:
>> Why should I dither when I have the ability to attempt a true
>> representation of 16-bit?
>
>Not dithering is lazy. So is profanity, for that matter.
It is not lazy, it is merely a part of the language. People with
notions that swearing is somehow wrong are generally wrong in many
other matters too.
--------------------------------
My First Subgenius Picture Book:
http://www.imbjr.com
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On Sun, 07 Mar 2004 14:32:52 -0800, Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom>
wrote:
>IMBJR wrote:
>> It is not lazy, it is merely a part of the language.
>
>It's lazy in that you're trying to express your own emotions or invoke
>responses in others without using words actually related to those
>emotions, but which instead have connotations unrelated to the
>discussion.
Sorry you have such a very narrow of such an expressive language.
> F'ing has nothing to do with JPEG2000, and is therefore
>entirely off-topic for this discussion. But you're too lazy to try to
>actually express your argument and then answer the counter-arguments
>with anything but profanity and insults.
Hahahahahaha! Make me laugh. You are arguing that words are nothing to
do with JPEG2000! Well that's true - but such an incredibly pointless
argument. Plus, indirectly, of course they are - since they are used
to form a description of the standard and to debate the use of the
format.
Looks like I've got you obsessing over the use of the word 'lazy'. Try
slapping your head, it might dislodge the word.
>
>Of course, next you tell me that I must not have read the thread,
>because otherwise I'd have to agree with you.
Well, Mr. Parrot, do I have to do that? Surely you've got the message
by now. Dear me, slow on the uptake or what?
--------------------------------
My First Subgenius Picture Book:
http://www.imbjr.com
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"IMBJR" <no### [at] spamhere> wrote in message
news:ef3n405huo2hlu7qjh3lsmiu5a0g85r3b1@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 7 Mar 2004 20:34:46 -0000, "St." <dot### [at] dotcom> wrote:
>
> >
> >"IMBJR" <no### [at] spamhere> wrote in message
> news:b84m40190ke3kt3boa6ahlgft6inp0bfpd@4ax.com...
> I get pissed off by the stupid isolationist backward thinking
> that obviously takes place here.
> I don't believe for one minute that any of the guys and girls here
*wouldn't want* a
> better file format to show others their images.
>
> Judging by the lazy attitudes I'm getting I beg to differ.
Well, I understand that people use their workstations/Mac's/PC's
so much differently to ourselves with their own workload, that, yes,
the word 'lazy' can be introduced there. I can certainly understand
that. I'm the same. I reply to about 5-10 emails a day on our
commercial site, and those in turn *can* result in around 30-40 emails
a day - back and forth, back and forth... I hate it, I'm a designer,
not a secretary. My relaxation of an evening is clicking a few images
and viewing them, not trying to find/open them. Can you see that side
of it 'for now'?
> Hey, most of the time, I don't even see an artifact, so PNG or
JPEG2000 is useless to me!
>
> You must look closer, they are there I promise you.
Yeah, sure, I *do* know that from what I've read in the groups, but
I'm also colour-blind and wear fairly strong glasses. These glasses
are around 15 years old, so I really should get another eye test, and
perhaps I'll be able to see these artifacts then... Maybe. My bad...
:/
The whole crux of this is that you should have presented your
argument in a much better way, present your argument and ask
something
> >like, "I'm trying this JPEG2000 format, I think it's better and we
> >should at least have a look at it - what do you guys think? Can
anyone
> >download it?"
>
> I posted an image
No, to most users, you posted a 'file' that most users couldn't view
as instantly as they wanted.
and mainly all I got was grief and some cheeky
> person mangling it. I wasn't even posting it to advocate JPEG2000 -
> but that's how it ended. I was merely doing it to preserve the
16-bit
> output of the POV scene (though that may now be pointless after at
> least some sensible discussion om the subject), but also to minimise
> the artifacts.
Could you show the rest of us these artifacts? Were they *that bad*
using .jpg?
>
> >
> > You would have then had the honest answers that you required
and
> >could have moved on further to perhaps complete that goal somehow,
> >perhaps with support from someone in these groups.
>
> No, my posting just revealed a lot of lazy people with fixed views.
No, your posting just aggravated people that wanted to see your
image instantly - like you've always done it - with .jpg format.
>
> >
> > Personally, I think your work is fantastic and wish that you
would
> >post more often, it's not *my* poving style, but nevertheless, I
> >always wonder how you do such images - you have a great talent
there.
>
> Cheers. Considering that don't use POV much that's a kind comment.
You don't use Pov much? Heh, you could have fooled me!
>
> >
> > KIS. Keep It Simple. I think we're all FOR moving forwards, but
> >let's take it one step at a time eh...?
>
> Believe you me, I would have thought that was just a single step.
And so it should be. But, the file JPEG2000 speaks for itself
imo -
the year 2000, that's a long time ago now. Someone, somewhere, missed
the boat IMO... :/ (Please, correct me if I'm wrong with this
anology).
>
> Anyway, this is all moot. It seems that it actually acceptable to
post
> such images. So where I feel it is required, I will.
Well, I've downloaded the latest release of Irfanview and its plugins
a couple of days ago, so post away. It really doesn't bother me. I'll
make the time and look forward to seeing them.
~Steve~
> imbjr
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On Sun, 7 Mar 2004 23:10:03 -0000, "St." <dot### [at] dotcom> wrote:
>
>"IMBJR" <no### [at] spamhere> wrote in message
>news:ef3n405huo2hlu7qjh3lsmiu5a0g85r3b1@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 7 Mar 2004 20:34:46 -0000, "St." <dot### [at] dotcom> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"IMBJR" <no### [at] spamhere> wrote in message
>> news:b84m40190ke3kt3boa6ahlgft6inp0bfpd@4ax.com...
>
>> I get pissed off by the stupid isolationist backward thinking
>> that obviously takes place here.
>
>
>
>> I don't believe for one minute that any of the guys and girls here
>*wouldn't want* a
>> better file format to show others their images.
>>
>> Judging by the lazy attitudes I'm getting I beg to differ.
>
> Well, I understand that people use their workstations/Mac's/PC's
>so much differently to ourselves with their own workload, that, yes,
>the word 'lazy' can be introduced there. I can certainly understand
>that. I'm the same. I reply to about 5-10 emails a day on our
>commercial site, and those in turn *can* result in around 30-40 emails
>a day - back and forth, back and forth... I hate it, I'm a designer,
>not a secretary. My relaxation of an evening is clicking a few images
>and viewing them, not trying to find/open them. Can you see that side
>of it 'for now'?
I certainly can. There are aspects of what you describe which I apply
to my work. However, I tend to prefer a more "active" approach to my
browsing. Sometimes though that actually means I can't get to sleep as
my mind is still switch on!
>
>
>> Hey, most of the time, I don't even see an artifact, so PNG or
>JPEG2000 is useless to me!
>>
>> You must look closer, they are there I promise you.
>
> Yeah, sure, I *do* know that from what I've read in the groups, but
>I'm also colour-blind and wear fairly strong glasses. These glasses
>are around 15 years old, so I really should get another eye test, and
>perhaps I'll be able to see these artifacts then... Maybe. My bad...
Ah, I see. Have you ever magnified an image digitally? Then you will
what are talking about.
>:/
>
>
> The whole crux of this is that you should have presented your
>argument in a much better way, present your argument and ask
>something
Well, as I've already stated - this was never about arguing for the
use of JPEG2000. I merely posted an image in that format because
that's the format I thought best represented what I needed to achieve.
The advocacy came later after the rather odd responses I got to the
posting.
>> >like, "I'm trying this JPEG2000 format, I think it's better and we
>> >should at least have a look at it - what do you guys think? Can
>anyone
>> >download it?"
>>
>> I posted an image
>
> No, to most users, you posted a 'file' that most users couldn't view
>as instantly as they wanted.
See above - ah, looks like I might be repeating myself in this thread.
Oh well.
>
>
>
>and mainly all I got was grief and some cheeky
>> person mangling it. I wasn't even posting it to advocate JPEG2000 -
>> but that's how it ended. I was merely doing it to preserve the
>16-bit
>> output of the POV scene (though that may now be pointless after at
>> least some sensible discussion om the subject), but also to minimise
>> the artifacts.
>
> Could you show the rest of us these artifacts? Were they *that bad*
>using .jpg?
I posted a comparison image. It should still be on the server. They
were certainly noticable and not want I intended at all.
>
>>
>> >
>> > You would have then had the honest answers that you required
>and
>> >could have moved on further to perhaps complete that goal somehow,
>> >perhaps with support from someone in these groups.
>>
>> No, my posting just revealed a lot of lazy people with fixed views.
>
> No, your posting just aggravated people that wanted to see your
>image instantly - like you've always done it - with .jpg format.
In this case, it had to be JPEG2000, there were 16-bit colour and
artifact issues that needed addressing. Though now it seems that the
16-bit aspect of all of this may be pointless as the ability of
hardware to support this may be lacking, plus there's the possibility
that lossy compression does not help when used with 16-bit.
>
>
>>
>> >
>> > Personally, I think your work is fantastic and wish that you
>would
>> >post more often, it's not *my* poving style, but nevertheless, I
>> >always wonder how you do such images - you have a great talent
>there.
>>
>> Cheers. Considering that don't use POV much that's a kind comment.
>
> You don't use Pov much? Heh, you could have fooled me!
No, it's true. I mainly use Bryce and Poser. I only use POV when I
have a procedural effect in mind - one that really could do with
scripting to help it into being.
>
>>
>> >
>> > KIS. Keep It Simple. I think we're all FOR moving forwards, but
>> >let's take it one step at a time eh...?
>>
>> Believe you me, I would have thought that was just a single step.
>
> And so it should be. But, the file JPEG2000 speaks for itself
>imo -
>the year 2000, that's a long time ago now. Someone, somewhere, missed
>the boat IMO... :/ (Please, correct me if I'm wrong with this
>anology).
I'm not sure. I think there are a number of various standards for
different things out there that bear oldish looking dates. However,
it's the implementation wake that follows that is important - I think
we are about to get the full swell of that soon.
>
>
>>
>> Anyway, this is all moot. It seems that it actually acceptable to
>post
>> such images. So where I feel it is required, I will.
>
> Well, I've downloaded the latest release of Irfanview and its plugins
>a couple of days ago, so post away. It really doesn't bother me. I'll
>make the time and look forward to seeing them.
Cheers.
--------------------------------
My First Subgenius Picture Book:
http://www.imbjr.com
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