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Sorry if this it OT
I do a project to keep my job, and I need photorealistic parameters for
laminate iron core for electromotor model. This far I have made an
animation, or few of them, but either it is too much reflection to the
level of confusion over what is reflected, or I get too dark metal with
finish { reflection 0.2 } or less.
Anyone had experience willing to share on modelling irons?
Here are examples of motors, so you could see the problem for yourself (2 MB
animation each)
http://161.53.83.3/~mtodorov/tesla/ind-320x240-2x-rot.gif
http://161.53.83.3/~mtodorov/tesla/sink-320x240-2x-rot.gif
You can also see I am not good at lighting. This is an academic volunteering
project and I am few months at rendering, so please any good soul help.
Marvin
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In article <web.44af9a9dd4b4ed7f73cc178a0@news.povray.org>,
"Marvin" <mto### [at] grf hr> wrote:
> Sorry if this it OT
>
> I do a project to keep my job, and I need photorealistic parameters for
> laminate iron core for electromotor model. This far I have made an
> animation, or few of them, but either it is too much reflection to the
> level of confusion over what is reflected, or I get too dark metal with
> finish { reflection 0.2 } or less.
>
> Anyone had experience willing to share on modelling irons?
>
> Here are examples of motors, so you could see the problem for yourself (2 MB
> animation each)
>
> http://161.53.83.3/~mtodorov/tesla/ind-320x240-2x-rot.gif
>
> http://161.53.83.3/~mtodorov/tesla/sink-320x240-2x-rot.gif
>
> You can also see I am not good at lighting. This is an academic volunteering
> project and I am few months at rendering, so please any good soul help.
>
> Marvin
in real life, reflectives surfaces reflects world...
--
klp
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kurtz le pirate <kur### [at] yahoofr> wrote:
> In article <web.44af9a9dd4b4ed7f73cc178a0@news.povray.org>,
>
> in real life, reflectives surfaces reflects world...
Nice observation :-)
But, see, the iron from feromagnetic cores is usually different, unlike INOX
or stainless steel, it has a lot of silicon inside to reduce heating from
magnetic induction, and therefore it is less reflective, in fact almost not
at all, except for polish.
Has anyone experienced this problem or obstacle and overcome with a
solution?
Thank you, and please save me through the day. There are objection to models
re: how much mroe realistic it looks with 3D MAX predefined material libs,
and our project still isn't aproved. I need something to knock them out of
the chairs to get funding and some decent equipment.
Marvin
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Marvin wrote:
> kurtz le pirate <kur### [at] yahoofr> wrote:
>
>>In article <web.44af9a9dd4b4ed7f73cc178a0@news.povray.org>,
>>
>>in real life, reflectives surfaces reflects world...
>
>
> Nice observation :-)
>
> But, see, the iron from feromagnetic cores is usually different, unlike INOX
> or stainless steel, it has a lot of silicon inside to reduce heating from
> magnetic induction, and therefore it is less reflective, in fact almost not
> at all, except for polish.
>
> Has anyone experienced this problem or obstacle and overcome with a
> solution?
>
> Thank you, and please save me through the day. There are objection to models
> re: how much mroe realistic it looks with 3D MAX predefined material libs,
> and our project still isn't aproved. I need something to knock them out of
> the chairs to get funding and some decent equipment.
>
> Marvin
>
>
>
do you have the 3D Max example?
right now from what you posted I find the higher reflection model more
persuasive.
I am not sure if you follow these groups but the blurred
reflection/brushed metal reflection/partial reflection problem has a
long history. Attempts to get a "universal solution" by trying to
model the effect in a literal way, such as Jaime Vives Piqueres'
solution, yield pretty good results for a subset of situations. I also
just read where Rune has a solution for brushed copper. It was mentioned
by Phil Brewer, the winner of the Music round in his txt file:
http://www.irtc.org/ftp/pub/stills/2006-04-30/cacoph.txt
There have been many other contributions to solve the problem.
In my own experience I find that adjusting the finish, sometimes in
extreme ways, in conjuction with the lighting gets close. Recently I was
struggling with the problem for a chalice I was rendering and found that
the background to reflect issue, mentioned in this thread also, had a
huge effect.
Have you fully explored the possibilities of the finish {} and
reflection {} statements, including fresnel with ior and so on?
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"Marvin" <mto### [at] grfhr> wrote:
> [...] laminate iron core for electromotor model.
Can you provide a photo of the sort of material you're after? I can only
remember ferrite such as you'd find in some radio receivers, which is
extremely dark.
Tom
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This is an OK black metal that looks cast. This
normal and finish looks OK with different scales and
colors as well.
texture {
pigment{Gray05}
normal{facets coords 1 scale 0.1}
finish {
ambient 0.10
brilliance 2
diffuse 0.4
metallic
specular 0.50
roughness 5/60
reflection 0.1
}
scale 0.35
}
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Marvin wrote:
> Sorry if this it OT
>
> I do a project to keep my job, and I need photorealistic parameters for
> laminate iron core for electromotor model. This far I have made an
> animation, or few of them, but either it is too much reflection to the
> level of confusion over what is reflected, or I get too dark metal with
> finish { reflection 0.2 } or less.
>
> Anyone had experience willing to share on modelling irons?
>
> Here are examples of motors, so you could see the problem for yourself (2 MB
> animation each)
>
> http://161.53.83.3/~mtodorov/tesla/ind-320x240-2x-rot.gif
>
> http://161.53.83.3/~mtodorov/tesla/sink-320x240-2x-rot.gif
>
> You can also see I am not good at lighting. This is an academic volunteering
> project and I am few months at rendering, so please any good soul help.
>
> Marvin
>
>
>
I modified POV's metals.inc for my own purposes and included iron colors. If
one of them doesn't work, then experiment using the MetalCol macro.
I designed the macros to be used in the same manner as textures, in that
#declare texIron = texture { MetalTex("Iron",1,3) }
uses the same syntax as a predeclared texture.
#ifdef(Metals2_Inc_Temp)
// do nothing
#else
#declare Metals2_Inc_Temp=version;
#ifdef(View_POV_Include_Stack)
# debug "including metals2.inc\n"
#end
/*
Persistence of Vision Raytracer Version 3.1
Metallic pigments, finishes, and textures.
*****************************************************************************
BASIC METAL COLORS, Macro form
*****************************************************************************
Note: Describing metallic textures is difficult, at best. The reflectivity
and other qualities make them highly dependant on lighting and surroundings.
The comments next to the definitions are intended as a rough guide only.
*/
#macro GoldCol(Type)
#switch(Type)
#case(1) color rgb <1.000, 0.675, 0.175> #break // Dim, nearly orange gold.
Might pass for copper.
#case(2) color rgb <1.000, 0.725, 0.275> #break // Lighter than Gold1 but
still dim.
#case(3) color rgb <1.000, 0.775, 0.375> #break // Mediam gold, close to
goldenrod.
#case(4) color rgb <1.000, 0.825, 0.475> #break // Slightly dimmer than Gold5
but still bright.
#case(5) color rgb <1.000, 0.875, 0.575> #break // Bright, yellow gold.
#end
#end
#macro BrassCol(Type)
#switch(Type)
#case(1) color rgb <0.30, 0.20, 0.10> #break // Dark brown bronze.
#case(2) color rgb <0.50, 0.35, 0.25> #break // Somewhat lighter brown than
Brass4. Old penny, in soft finishes.
#case(3) color rgb <0.58, 0.42, 0.20> #break // Used by Steve Anger's
Polished_Brass. Slightly coppery.
#case(4) color rgb <0.65, 0.50, 0.25> #break // A little yellower than Brass1.
#case(5) color rgb <0.70, 0.55, 0.40> #break // Very light bronze, ranges from
med tan to almost white.
#end
#end
#macro ChromeCol(Type)
#switch(Type)
#case(1) color rgb <0.20, 0.20, 0.20> #break // 20% Gray. Used in Steve
Anger's Polished_Chrome.
#case(2) color rgb <0.39, 0.41, 0.43> #break // Slightly blueish 60% gray.
Good steel w/finish #A.
#case(3) color rgb <0.50, 0.50, 0.50> #break // 50% neutral gray.
#case(4) color rgb <0.75, 0.75, 0.75> #break // 75% neutral gray.
#case(5) color rgb <0.95, 0.95, 0.95> #break // 95% neutral gray.
#end
#end
#macro CopperCol(Type)
#switch(Type)
#case(1) color rgb <0.40, 0.20, 0.15> #break // bronze-like. Best in finish #C.
#case(2) color rgb <0.50, 0.25, 0.15> #break // slightly brownish
copper/bronze. Best in finishes #B-#D.
#case(3) color rgb <0.60, 0.30, 0.15> #break // reddish-brown copper. Best in
finishes #C-#E.
#case(4) color rgb <0.70, 0.25, 0.15> #break // pink copper, like new tubing.
Best in finishes #C-#E.
#case(5) color rgb <0.65, 0.35, 0.15> #break // Bronze in softer finishes,
gold in harder finishes.
#end
#end
#macro SilverCol(Type)
#switch(Type)
#case(1) color rgb <0.94, 0.93, 0.80> #break // Yellowish silverplate.
Somewhat tarnished looking.
#case(2) color rgb <0.94, 0.93, 0.85> #break // Not quite as yellowish as
Silver1 but more so than Silver3.
#case(3) color rgb <0.94, 0.93, 0.90> #break // Reasonably neutral silver.
#case(4) color rgb <0.95, 0.91, 0.91> #break // REDUNDANT (unused)
#case(5) color rgb <0.91, 0.95, 0.91> #break // REDUNDANT (unused)
#end
#end
#macro IronCol(Type)
#switch(Type)
#case(1) color rgb <0.05, 0.05, 0.05> #break // Near-black, wrought iron.
#case(2) color rgb <0.10, 0.10, 0.10> #break // Slightly lighter pig-iron.
#case(3) color rgb <0.15, 0.15, 0.20> #break // Dim steel.
#case(4) color rgb <0.10, 0.05, 0.05> #break // Somewhat rusted iron, reddish.
#case(5) color rgb <0.20, 0.17, 0.15> #break // Somewhat rusted steel, orange.
#end
#end
//*****************************************************************************
// BASIC METAL FINISHES
//*****************************************************************************
#macro MetFinish(Type)
#switch(Type)
#case(1) // Very soft and dull.
ambient 0.00
brilliance 2
diffuse 1.0
conserve_energy
metallic
specular 0.80
roughness 1/20
reflection { 0.05, 0.15 metallic }
#break
#case(2) // Fairly soft and dull.
ambient 0.00
brilliance 3
diffuse 1.0
conserve_energy
metallic
specular 0.70
roughness 1/60
reflection { 0.10, 0.25 metallic }
#break
#case(3) // Medium reflectivity. Holds color well.
ambient 0.00
brilliance 4
diffuse 1.0
conserve_energy
metallic
specular 0.80
roughness 1/80
reflection { 0.20, 0.50 metallic }
#break
#case(4) // Highly hard and polished. High reflectivity.
ambient 0.00
brilliance 5
diffuse 1.0
conserve_energy
metallic
specular 0.80
roughness 1/100
reflection { 0.25, 0.65 metallic }
#break
#case(5) // Very highly polished & reflective.
ambient 0.00
brilliance 6
diffuse 1.0
conserve_energy
metallic
specular 0.80
roughness 1/120
reflection { 0.30, 0.8 metallic }
#break
#end
#end
//*****************************************************************************
// METAL TEXTURES
//*****************************************************************************
// Standard Metals
#macro MetalTex(Type, Col, Fin)
#if(strcmp(Type, "Gold")=0) pigment { GoldCol(Col) } #end
#if(strcmp(Type, "Silver")=0) pigment { SilverCol(Col) } #end
#if(strcmp(Type, "Brass")=0) pigment { BrassCol(Col) } #end
#if(strcmp(Type, "Copper")=0) pigment { CopperCol(Col) } #end
#if(strcmp(Type, "Chrome")=0) pigment { ChromeCol(Col) } #end
#if(strcmp(Type, "Iron")=0) pigment { IronCol(Col) } #end
finish { MetFinish(Fin) }
#end
// User-defined metallic texture
#macro MetalCol(Col, Fin)
pigment { rgb Col }
finish { MetFinish(Fin) }
#end
#version Metals2_Inc_Temp;
#end
--
--------------
David Wallace
TenArbor Consulting
"Just In Time Cash"
www.tenarbor.com
1-866-572-CASH
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"Tim Attwood" <tim### [at] comcastnet> wrote:
> This is an OK black metal that looks cast. This
> normal and finish looks OK with different scales and
> colors as well.
>
> texture {
> pigment{Gray05}
> normal{facets coords 1 scale 0.1}
> finish {
> ambient 0.10
> brilliance 2
> diffuse 0.4
> metallic
> specular 0.50
> roughness 5/60
> reflection 0.1
> }
> scale 0.35
> }
Hi, Tim, I tried this and it is nearly photorealistic ferrite core it gives!
Thank you very much, this will help a lot!
However, if you saw my model, I have also the problems with windings on
rotor. When windings are used, in bigger motors ferrite cores are too
fragile, and I need something like high silicon impured tin. Silicon
alloyed is to reduce eddie currents that heat up motor and steal from
mechanical energy, probably, but this is unimportant technical detail.
Any tin foils finishes, please, would save my day.
Marvin
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"Tim Attwood" <tim### [at] comcastnet> wrote:
> This is an OK black metal that looks cast. This
> normal and finish looks OK with different scales and
> colors as well.
>
> texture {
> pigment{Gray05}
> normal{facets coords 1 scale 0.1}
> finish {
> ambient 0.10
> brilliance 2
> diffuse 0.4
> metallic
> specular 0.50
> roughness 5/60
> reflection 0.1
> }
> scale 0.35
> }
Hi, Tim, sorry to have to say this - but after checking rotation, I seem to
have trouble with the fact that my rotor rotates, but texture is not
rotating with it, ...
Is there a sulution to this?
Am I doing something ver wrong?
Here is the example:
http://magrf.grf.hr/~mtodorov/tesla/ind-640x480-blk.gif
Thanks,
Marv
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Wasn't it Marvin who wrote:
>
>Hi, Tim, sorry to have to say this - but after checking rotation, I seem to
>have trouble with the fact that my rotor rotates, but texture is not
>rotating with it, ...
>
>Is there a sulution to this?
>Am I doing something ver wrong?
If you write
object{Rotor
texture {MyTexture}
rotate {z*180*clock}
}
Then the texture should rotate with the Rotor, but if you write
object{Rotor
rotate {z*180*clock}
texture {MyTexture}
}
Then the Rotor should rotate but the texture should not rotate with it.
--
Mike Williams
Gentleman of Leisure
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