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From: Walid
Subject: Double-slit experiment
Date: 30 Jan 2006 02:45:00
Message: <web.43ddc366e1dcb9c9666c08b10@news.povray.org>
Hi,

Is it possible to simulate electrons interference with povray?
If yes, I would appreciate the help of someone on this topic?

Walid


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From: Le Forgeron
Subject: Re: Double-slit experiment
Date: 30 Jan 2006 05:41:02
Message: <43dded3e$1@news.povray.org>
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Walid wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Is it possible to simulate electrons interference with povray?
> If yes, I would appreciate the help of someone on this topic?

That's photon, not electron!
If you confuse lepton and boson, you need far more help than I can
provide.

- --
Eifersucht ist die Leidenschaft, die mit Eifer sucht, was Leiden
schafft.

Eco: -8.75 Soc: -6.72
http://www.politicalcompass.org/
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iD8DBQFD3e09s/YJ43cSjHIRAlsgAJ0bcf7rsnfWDB5ZoNy+IVR8evv7FQCfW0Fe
R2vkiRBPa/844uTelRtf9jE=
=MTjo
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From: Walid
Subject: Re: Double-slit experiment
Date: 30 Jan 2006 06:00:00
Message: <web.43ddf0544080b391666c08b10@news.povray.org>
Thanks for enlightening me, but as you know (or you don't) matter particles,
such as electrons, also produce interference patterns due to their wave-like
nature. I'm really far away from confusing leptons and bosons.

Le Forgeron <jgr### [at] freefr> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Walid wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Is it possible to simulate electrons interference with povray?
> > If yes, I would appreciate the help of someone on this topic?
>
> That's photon, not electron!
> If you confuse lepton and boson, you need far more help than I can
> provide.
>
> - --
> Eifersucht ist die Leidenschaft, die mit Eifer sucht, was Leiden
> schafft.
>
> Eco: -8.75 Soc: -6.72
> http://www.politicalcompass.org/
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>
> iD8DBQFD3e09s/YJ43cSjHIRAlsgAJ0bcf7rsnfWDB5ZoNy+IVR8evv7FQCfW0Fe
> R2vkiRBPa/844uTelRtf9jE=
> =MTjo
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


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From: Alain
Subject: Re: Double-slit experiment
Date: 30 Jan 2006 07:00:37
Message: <43ddffe5$1@news.povray.org>
Walid nous apporta ses lumieres en ce 30/01/2006 02:43:
> Hi,
> 
> Is it possible to simulate electrons interference with povray?
> If yes, I would appreciate the help of someone on this topic?
> 
> Walid
> 
> 
> 
> 
You can't have a correct simulation. The closest you can get is by using a pair of
repeating 
patterns lige onion, using a large scale along the viewing vector.

-- 
Alain
-------------------------------------------------
f u cn rd ths, u cn gt a gd jb n cmptr prgrmmng.


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From: Thibaut Jonckheere
Subject: Re: Double-slit experiment
Date: 31 Jan 2006 06:35:27
Message: <43df4b7f@news.povray.org>
Le Forgeron wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Walid wrote:
> 
>>Hi,
>>
>>Is it possible to simulate electrons interference with povray?
>>If yes, I would appreciate the help of someone on this topic?
> 
> 
> That's photon, not electron!
> If you confuse lepton and boson, you need far more help than I can
> provide.
>

well, have a look at the 1925 famous Davidson & Germer experiment, for 
example at
http://www.phys.ufl.edu/~rfield/PHY3063/images/Chapter5_7.pdf


Thibaut


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From: Skip Talbot
Subject: Re: Double-slit experiment
Date: 3 Feb 2006 01:24:11
Message: <43e2f70b$1@news.povray.org>
Alain wrote:
> Walid nous apporta ses lumieres en ce 30/01/2006 02:43:
> 
>> Hi,
>>
>> Is it possible to simulate electrons interference with povray?
>> If yes, I would appreciate the help of someone on this topic?
>>
>> Walid
>>
>>
>>
>>
> You can't have a correct simulation. The closest you can get is by using 
> a pair of repeating patterns lige onion, using a large scale along the 
> viewing vector.
> 

Yes, you'd have to have to fake it, for povray doesn't shoot its rays as 
waves.

Skip


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From: Walid
Subject: Re: Double-slit experiment
Date: 3 Feb 2006 09:50:00
Message: <web.43e36ccd4080b391666c08b10@news.povray.org>
> >> Is it possible to simulate electrons interference with povray?
> >> If yes, I would appreciate the help of someone on this topic?

OK, let's forget about the "waves" interference part. Is it possible
to simulate the "particle" interference where particles are randomly
generating patterns of interference on a screen.

Thanks
Walid


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From: Bill Pragnell
Subject: Re: Double-slit experiment
Date: 3 Feb 2006 10:25:00
Message: <web.43e375244080b391731f01d10@news.povray.org>
"Walid" <wha### [at] onlinefr> wrote:
> OK, let's forget about the "waves" interference part. Is it possible
> to simulate the "particle" interference where particles are randomly
> generating patterns of interference on a screen.

Interference is a wave phenomenon. Particles can only interfere with each
other if they can be described by a wave function (i.e., if they are
behaving like waves). The theory that describes electron interference is
the same as that which describes light interference. If there is a
difference, the quantum physicists haven't figured it out yet!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave-particle_duality

Bill


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From: Walid
Subject: Re: Double-slit experiment
Date: 3 Feb 2006 11:25:00
Message: <web.43e382634080b391666c08b10@news.povray.org>
> Interference is a wave phenomenon. Particles can only interfere with each
> other if they can be described by a wave function (i.e., if they are
> behaving like waves). The theory that describes electron interference is
> the same as that which describes light interference. If there is a
> difference, the quantum physicists haven't figured it out yet!
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave-particle_duality
>
> Bill

I'm only trying to simulate the phenomenon with povray even if I'm faking
it.

The followng web site shows the photos of real electrons interference.
http://www.src.wits.ac.za/pages/teaching/Connell/phys284/2005/lecture-02/lecture_02/node3.html

while the following web site simulates electrons interference (using java
applet) http://www.ianford.com/dslit/

I'd like to know if it is possible to simulate such patterns of interference
with povray using the random keyword and some probability rules.

Walid


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From: Chris B
Subject: Re: Double-slit experiment
Date: 3 Feb 2006 12:20:34
Message: <43e390e2@news.povray.org>
"Walid" <wha### [at] onlinefr> wrote in message 
news:web.43e36ccd4080b391666c08b10@news.povray.org...
>> >> Is it possible to simulate electrons interference with povray?
>> >> If yes, I would appreciate the help of someone on this topic?
>
> OK, let's forget about the "waves" interference part. Is it possible
> to simulate the "particle" interference where particles are randomly
> generating patterns of interference on a screen.
>
> Thanks
> Walid
>

Hi Walid,
I might be missing the point, but it seems to me that if you just want to 
create a pattern on a surface that replicates an interference pattern, then 
I can see two ways to do that in POV-Ray.

1. Use a function to create a pigment - I suspect it would be possible to 
work out a function that uses the difference between the distance to one 
slit and the distance to the other, then takes the remainder after dividing 
that difference by the 'wavelength', returning a bright value where the 
remainder is zero or equal to the 'wavelength' and fading to dark where the 
remainder is half the wavelength.

2. Just position objects at the points of impact on the screen - If you 
wanted a scatter of bright dots representing individual locations, you could 
generate a random series of positions on a surface, then use the same sort 
of calculation to determine whether you are going to show that dot or not.

The following example uses the second approach, with a series of spheres 
being generated on an imaginary screen. The difference between the lengths 
of the two potential paths is used to define how likely a dot is to be made 
on the screen.

Hope this helps,
Regards,
Chris B.


camera {location <0,500,500> look_at <0,200,0>}
light_source{<   0,   0,-400> rgb 3}

#local SlitSeparation  = 7;
#local SlitWidth       = 3.5;
#local Wavelength      = 1;

box {<                         -500,-200,-500>
  <-SlitSeparation/2-SlitWidth/2,200,-501>
  pigment {color rgb <0,1,1>}
}
box {<-SlitSeparation/2+SlitWidth/2,-200,-500>
  < SlitSeparation/2-SlitWidth/2,200,-501>
  pigment {color rgb <0,1,1>}
}
box {< SlitSeparation/2+SlitWidth/2,-200,-500>
  <                          500,200,-501>
  pigment {color rgb <0,1,1>}
}

cylinder {<   0,   0,-1251>,<   0,   0,-1450>,8
  texture {pigment {color rgb <1,0,1>}
  finish {ambient rgb <1,0,1>}}
}
cylinder {<   0,   0,-1250>,<   0,   0,-1251>,5
  texture {pigment {color rgb <1,1,0>}
  finish {ambient rgb 10*<1,1,0>}}
}

#local MySphere = sphere {0,1
  texture {pigment {color rgb <1,1,0>}
  finish {ambient rgb 3*<1,1,0>}}
}

#local I = 1;
#local MySeed = seed(1);
#while (I<20000)
  #local XCoord = 600 * (rand(MySeed)-0.5);
  #local YCoord = 400 * (rand(MySeed)-0.5);
  #local Difference = 
vlength(<XCoord,0,0>-<-SlitSeparation,0,-500>)-vlength(<XCoord,0,0>-<SlitSeparation,0,-500>);
  #local FringeDisplacement = 
abs(abs(mod(Difference,Wavelength)/Wavelength)*2-1);
  #if (rand(MySeed)<FringeDisplacement)
    object {MySphere translate <XCoord,YCoord,0>}
    #local I = I + 1;
  #end
#end


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