Ok, I was wondering if there was a reasonably easy way to make palm trees
(well specifally the leaves) from povray primatives with csg, blobs or
whatever. Basically I want to hand code everything in the scene that I can
and am stuck on the palm leaves. Anyone have any ideas?

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"Wanderer On The Road" <non### [at] fakeaddresscom> wrote in message
news:3c620e5c@news.povray.org...
> Ok, I was wondering if there was a reasonably easy way to make palm trees
> (well specifally the leaves) from povray primatives with csg, blobs or
> whatever. Basically I want to hand code everything in the scene that I can
> and am stuck on the palm leaves. Anyone have any ideas?

Not one of the more particularly "advanced" questions seen in this group.

Sure, CSG of spheres or cylinders in a #while loop could make palm fronds.
Just clip a section out then transform into place along a spine which could
also be simply a section of sphere or cylinder.  Depends on how near you
expect to be looking at it but if from far enough away it wouldn't matter
how thin the parts are.
The most difficulty (but not too much so) would be aligning the individual
leaf segments along the spine.  They are most always ellipses and not
perfect circled curve segments.  Scaling would go the same way.

bob h

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Having thought on this more... spline() in the beta of 3.5 makes it very
easy for the CSG *leaves* to follow a path, which would be the spine of the
whole branch.
Hope I didn't sound too sarcastic before, BTW.  I forgot to toss in a  ;-)
or something.
If you're not understanding what I'm talking about maybe we could move this
to povray.general, except maybe it's too late for that if the answer for you
is going to require some math equations instead  :-)  (which I couldn't help
much with).

bob h

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"Wanderer On The Road" wrote:
> Ok, I was wondering if there was a reasonably easy
> way to make palm trees (well specifally the leaves)
> from povray primatives with csg, blobs or whatever.

There are many ways to do it. How about bicubic patches, using one for each
leave. They could be image_mapped using UV-mapping.

(BTW, I find this question advanced enough for this group.)

Rune
--
3D images and anims, include files, tutorials and more:
Rune's World:    http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk (updated Jan 20)
POV-Ray Users:   http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk/povrayusers/
POV-Ray Webring: http://webring.povray.co.uk

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Search for the TomTree include file... it makes extremely realistic Palm
Trees.
See my post 'Palms' from 4th April 2001 in p.b.i

All the best,

Andy Cocker

"Wanderer On The Road" <non### [at] fakeaddresscom> wrote in message
news:3c620e5c@news.povray.org...
> Ok, I was wondering if there was a reasonably easy way to make palm trees
> (well specifally the leaves) from povray primatives with csg, blobs or
> whatever. Basically I want to hand code everything in the scene that I can
> and am stuck on the palm leaves. Anyone have any ideas?
>
>

Post a reply to this message

"Rune" <run### [at] mobilixnetdk> wrote in message
news:3c625b59$1@news.povray.org...
>
> (BTW, I find this question advanced enough for this group.)

All in the perspective.  As you may have noticed I could figure it as both
simple or complex, like many things.
I made a palm tree rendering this morning to try it out using sphere
sections and spline() and sphere_sweep.  I could do plenty more fixing on
it.
I'll post it at p.b.i., mainly because everyone else is posting all kinds of
great stuff and I'm falling so far behind lately.  Got to prevent this crazy
rat race feeling somehow  ;-)

bob h

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Wanderer On The Road <non### [at] fakeaddresscom> wrote:
: primatives

  This word again... :)

-- 
#macro N(D)#if(D>99)cylinder{M()#local D=div(D,104);M().5,2pigment{rgb M()}}
N(D)#end#end#macro M()<mod(D,13)-6mod(div(D,13)8)-3,10>#end blob{
N(11117333955)N(4254934330)N(3900569407)N(7382340)N(3358)N(970)}//  - Warp -

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bob h wrote:
> 
> ...
> I'll post it at p.b.i., mainly because everyone else is posting all kinds of
> great stuff and I'm falling so far behind lately.  Got to prevent this crazy
> rat race feeling somehow  ;-)
> 
> bob h

Heh, I just did the same thing. I'm gonna post my IRTC WIP when I get
this next character model fixed.

-- 
signature{
  "Grey Knight" contact{ email "gre### [at] yahoocom" }
  site_of_week{ url "http://digilander.iol.it/jrgpov" }
}

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If the palm trees have to look good, figure out some code to generate
meshes (you don't want to do them by hand!)  The benefit of this is
that you can generate a few of these, and then copy them many times
very cheaply (memory-wize).

If the palm trees don't have to look good, use simple csg for the trunk,
and then paint some polygons with an image_map of a palm frond, and
use that for the foilage.

Regards,
John
-- 
ICQ: 46085459

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"bob h" <omn### [at] charternet> wrote in message
news:3c623df3@news.povray.org...
> "Wanderer On The Road" <non### [at] fakeaddresscom> wrote in message
> news:3c620e5c@news.povray.org...
> Not one of the more particularly "advanced" questions seen in this group.

Yeah well, I wasn't seeing an easy way to do it.

> Sure, CSG of spheres or cylinders in a #while loop could make palm fronds.
> Just clip a section out then transform into place along a spine which
could
> also be simply a section of sphere or cylinder.  Depends on how near you
> expect to be looking at it but if from far enough away it wouldn't matter
> how thin the parts are.
> The most difficulty (but not too much so) would be aligning the individual
> leaf segments along the spine.  They are most always ellipses and not
> perfect circled curve segments.  Scaling would go the same way.

Interesting. I've tried to do some stuff with #while and failed. Before and
I'm interestid in this spline() function in 3.5 I'm assuming that it's
documented. Any good tutorials for that sort of thing? Oh and if it makes
any difference this will be appear in a painting with in the scene.


--
Wanderer On The Road
     Many religions are the story of man trying to reach out to God
     Christianity is the story of God trying to reach out to man.

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"Wanderer On The Road" <non### [at] fakeaddresscom> wrote in message
news:3c648bca@news.povray.org...
>
> Interesting. I've tried to do some stuff with #while and failed. Before
and
> I'm interestid in this spline() function in 3.5 I'm assuming that it's
> documented. Any good tutorials for that sort of thing? Oh and if it makes
> any difference this will be appear in a painting with in the scene.

You are going to model something that will be 2D?  Or were you going to use
a ready-made photo?  If the latter, image_map is all you'd need.

Yes, in the beta of 3.5 and MegaPOV, both have splines.  It isn't very
difficult to use at all.  Just a list of points (vectors) with a time value
attached to each, then when you run a variable through it via clock or loop
it increments according to that.  Interpolating a series of vectors called
by MySpline(Time) for example which in reality is <1,2,3> format as
recognized by the keyword you apply it with, i.e. translate MySpline(Move)
[those words being whatever you declare them to be, of course].  Move would
be the clock or loop variable.

See section 6.1.9 of the v3.5 docs.
I thought that was available online separately but I fail to find it now.

Check out the creators (I think he is anyway) tutorial on it:
http://pandora.inf.uni-jena.de/p/e/noo/povsp/use.html

bob h

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"bob h" <omn### [at] charternet> wrote in message
news:3c6492bb@news.povray.org...
> "Wanderer On The Road" <non### [at] fakeaddresscom> wrote in message
> news:3c648bca@news.povray.org...
> >
> > Interesting. I've tried to do some stuff with #while and failed. Before
> and
> > I'm interestid in this spline() function in 3.5 I'm assuming that it's
> > documented. Any good tutorials for that sort of thing? Oh and if it
makes
> > any difference this will be appear in a painting with in the scene.
>
> You are going to model something that will be 2D?  Or were you going to
use
> a ready-made photo?  If the latter, image_map is all you'd need.

Modeling something that will be 2D-ish. See my plan is to make a scene that
will then be image_mapped on to an object (in this case a painter's canvas).


> Yes, in the beta of 3.5 and MegaPOV, both have splines.  It isn't very
> difficult to use at all.  Just a list of points (vectors) with a time
value
> attached to each, then when you run a variable through it via clock or
loop
> it increments according to that.  Interpolating a series of vectors called
> by MySpline(Time) for example which in reality is <1,2,3> format as
> recognized by the keyword you apply it with, i.e. translate MySpline(Move)
> [those words being whatever you declare them to be, of course].  Move
would
> be the clock or loop variable.

hrm.... Any good tutorials on how to use #while?

> See section 6.1.9 of the v3.5 docs.
> I thought that was available online separately but I fail to find it now.

Thanks. I'll look into it.

> Check out the creators (I think he is anyway) tutorial on it:
> http://pandora.inf.uni-jena.de/p/e/noo/povsp/use.html

Much thanks.


--
Wanderer On The Road
     Many religions are the story of man trying to reach out to God
     Christianity is the story of God trying to reach out to man.

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"Wanderer On The Road" <non### [at] fakeaddresscom> wrote in message
news:3c688c39@news.povray.org...
>
> Modeling something that will be 2D-ish. See my plan is to make a scene
that
> will then be image_mapped on to an object (in this case a painter's
canvas).
>
> hrm.... Any good tutorials on how to use #while?

http://www.students.tut.fi/~warp/povVFAQ/whileloops.html

That should do nicely if you can be a little technical about it, since Warp
can often be I know :-)

Yeah, the render within a render can be pretty neat, as many online
galleries can attest to.

bob h

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Wanderer On The Road wrote:

> hrm.... Any good tutorials on how to use #while?

There is a good basic introduction to loops at this site in the povabilities
section - http://www.spake.org/rtimes/

-- 
Ken Tyler

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"bob h" <omn### [at] charternet> wrote in message
news:3c68d377$1@news.povray.org...
> "Wanderer On The Road" <non### [at] fakeaddresscom> wrote in message
> news:3c688c39@news.povray.org...
> >
> > Modeling something that will be 2D-ish. See my plan is to make a scene
> that
> > will then be image_mapped on to an object (in this case a painter's
> canvas).
> >
> > hrm.... Any good tutorials on how to use #while?
>
> http://www.students.tut.fi/~warp/povVFAQ/whileloops.html
>
> That should do nicely if you can be a little technical about it, since
Warp
> can often be I know :-)

Well since I'm often accused (usualy correctly) of thinking too much I bet I
can figure it out ^_~


> Yeah, the render within a render can be pretty neat, as many online
> galleries can attest to.

Yes, though is there anything I can do to the painting scene that will make
it look slightly unfinished with out resorting to post trace effects in like
the gimp?


--
Wanderer On The Road
     Many religions are the story of man trying to reach out to God
     Christianity is the story of God trying to reach out to man.

Post a reply to this message

"Wanderer On The Road" <non### [at] fakeaddresscom> wrote in message
news:3c6df0a4@news.povray.org...
>
> "bob h" <omn### [at] charternet> wrote in message
> news:3c68d377$1@news.povray.org...
>
> > Yeah, the render within a render can be pretty neat, as many online
> > galleries can attest to.
>
> Yes, though is there anything I can do to the painting scene that will
make
> it look slightly unfinished with out resorting to post trace effects in
like
> the gimp?

Any number of things are possible I suppose.  One thing that comes to mind
is material_map to take the rendered image and make incomplete parts to it,
hence unfinished.  Likewise by using a patterned layered texture with
image_map(s) as the main pigment.
Getting a oil painting look to it wouldn't be difficult, making different
brush stroke effects for each color region.  Kind of an in-POV Photoshop
filter effects just by applying various normals and finishes for those color
regions.

bob h

Take a look at this simplified form of that:

camera {
  location  -2*z
  right     x*image_width/image_height
  look_at   0
}

light_source {
  0,1
  translate <-5, 5, -30>
}

// textures for material map
#declare T0=texture {pigment {rgb 0}}
#declare T1=texture {pigment {rgb <0,1,0>}
 normal {wrinkles 0.25 scale 0.025}
  finish {specular 0.4 roughness 0.01}}
#declare T2=texture {pigment {rgb <1,1,0>}
 normal {granite 0.125 scale 0.125}
  finish {specular 0.2 roughness 0.025}}
#declare T3=texture {pigment {rgb <1,1,1>}
 normal {bumps 0.1 scale 0.1}
  finish {specular 0.3 roughness 0.0125}}
#declare T4=texture {pigment {rgb <0,1,1>}
 normal {marble 0.1 scale 0.1 turbulence 1}
  finish {specular 0.5 roughness 0.005}}
#declare T5=texture {pigment {rgb 1}}

plane {
  z, 0
  texture {
      material_map {
        png "materialmap.png" // 256 color bitmap (of your rendering)
        once
        interpolate 2

        texture {T0} // index 0
       #declare Index=1;
       #while (Index<25)
        texture {T1}
       #declare Index=Index+1;
       #end
       #while (Index<100)
        texture {T2}
       #declare Index=Index+1;
       #end
       #while (Index<150)
        texture {T3}
       #declare Index=Index+1;
       #end
       #while (Index<255)
        texture {T4}
       #declare Index=Index+1;
       #end
        texture {T5} // index 255
    }
      translate -0.5
      scale <4/3,1,1>*2
  }
}

To get better resolution of colors and textures into your image you'll need
to increase the number of entries.

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"bob h" <omn### [at] charternet> wrote in message
news:3c6e65af@news.povray.org...
> "Wanderer On The Road" <non### [at] fakeaddresscom> wrote in message
> news:3c6df0a4@news.povray.org...
> >
> > "bob h" <omn### [at] charternet> wrote in message
> > news:3c68d377$1@news.povray.org...
> >
> > > Yeah, the render within a render can be pretty neat, as many online
> > > galleries can attest to.
> >
> > Yes, though is there anything I can do to the painting scene that will
> make
> > it look slightly unfinished with out resorting to post trace effects in
> like
> > the gimp?
>
> Any number of things are possible I suppose.  One thing that comes to mind
> is material_map to take the rendered image and make incomplete parts to
it,
> hence unfinished.  Likewise by using a patterned layered texture with
> image_map(s) as the main pigment.
> Getting a oil painting look to it wouldn't be difficult, making different
> brush stroke effects for each color region.  Kind of an in-POV Photoshop
> filter effects just by applying various normals and finishes for those
color
> regions.

Ok I'll look into that after I choose a palm leaf method. Did OE nuke the
thread or did the server? I can't seem to find the beginning few posts
anymore.

> Take a look at this simplified form of that:
[snip]
>         png "materialmap.png" // 256 color bitmap (of your rendering)
[snip]
> To get better resolution of colors and textures into your image you'll
need
> to increase the number of entries.

Is that's what is limiting the material map to 8bit color as opposed to 24
or 32 bit?


--
Wanderer On The Road
     Many religions are the story of man trying to reach out to God
     Christianity is the story of God trying to reach out to man.

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Wanderer On The Road wrote:
> Did OE nuke the thread or did the server? I can't seem to find
> the beginning few posts anymore.

OE done it.

-- 
Ken Tyler

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"Wanderer On The Road" <non### [at] fakeaddresscom> wrote in message
news:3c6ed704@news.povray.org...
>
> Is that's what is limiting the material map to 8bit color as opposed to 24
> or 32 bit?

Yep.  That's the downside to this, having to lower a 24 bit image to 8 bit
and thereby reducing the image quality.  You either get banded colors or
dithering.
I was going to use an example which would put the original image underneath
a clear material map so just the normals with specular highlights are
overlayed.  Could still be done that way too I guess, only need a second
object to place the image_map on.  Can't layer textures when material_map is
used, at least I don't think so.

About OE removing messages, check Tools menu, Options then Maintenance.  The
delete after so many days is what does it.

bob h

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"Ken" <tyl### [at] pacbellnet> wrote in message
news:3C6EEF11.C8ADAA78@pacbell.net...
>
>
> Wanderer On The Road wrote:
> > Did OE nuke the thread or did the server? I can't seem to find
> > the beginning few posts anymore.
>
> OE done it.

Fun, it's still on the server I hope. So like I can nuke this news account
and recreate it and find it again?


--
Wanderer On The Road
     Many religions are the story of man trying to reach out to God
     Christianity is the story of God trying to reach out to man.

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Wanderer On The Road wrote:

> Fun, it's still on the server I hope. So like I can nuke this news account
> and recreate it and find it again?

I reckon so.

-- 
Ken Tyler

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"bob h" <omn### [at] charternet> wrote in message
news:3c6f1f89@news.povray.org...
> "Wanderer On The Road" <non### [at] fakeaddresscom> wrote in message
> news:3c6ed704@news.povray.org...
> >
> > Is that's what is limiting the material map to 8bit color as opposed to
24
> > or 32 bit?
>
> Yep.  That's the downside to this, having to lower a 24 bit image to 8 bit
> and thereby reducing the image quality.  You either get banded colors or
> dithering.
> I was going to use an example which would put the original image
underneath
> a clear material map so just the normals with specular highlights are
> overlayed.  Could still be done that way too I guess, only need a second
> object to place the image_map on.  Can't layer textures when material_map
is
> used, at least I don't think so.

Well actually I was thinking about image_maping the render on to a polygon
and then unioning that to the painter's canvas. Is that the sort of thing
you meant?

> About OE removing messages, check Tools menu, Options then Maintenance.
The
> delete after so many days is what does it.

Done. I'll mess with getting the thread back later.


--
Wanderer On The Road
     Many religions are the story of man trying to reach out to God
     Christianity is the story of God trying to reach out to man.

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"Wanderer On The Road" <non### [at] fakeaddresscom> wrote in message
news:3c75da4a@news.povray.org...
>
> Well actually I was thinking about image_maping the render on to a polygon
> and then unioning that to the painter's canvas. Is that the sort of thing
> you meant?

Close enough anyway.  Simply that it would take at least two objects,
whether it be plane + plane, box (infinitely thin) + box, polygon + box, or
whatever.  One to hold the image, one to act as layer over it.  Except what
you describe means yet another polygon would be needed to place in front of
the image polygon, for the way I was talking about.  Which is a physical
object layer holding a transparent yet normal and finish modified surface on
top of a unmodified image.

Might seem more complicated than it is, but that's how I might proceed to
work around the "cannot layer patterned textures" problem that otherwise
happens with a material map being applied as layered texture.

bob h

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