The HP-48 is my favourite calculator.

It can do matrix math, vector math, complex number math 
symbolic algebra math, deriving, (some integration),
numerical solving of equations and much more.

It is VERY programmable, has TONS of functions and 
there is very much stuff on the internet for/about it
(and it's relatives). E.g. the comp.sys.hp48 news group.

You can download the emulator for it from this site:

http://www.hpcalc.org/hp48/pc/emulators/
(The emulator is called "Emu48 1.20")

You should also download the latest service pack for the
emulator (which can be downloaded from the same web page);
"Emu48 Unofficial Service Pack 22"

And you will also need a ROM-dump to run on the emulator;
e.g.: "HP 48GX Revision R ROM" (that also is available at
the same web-page.) The zip-file contains a file that has 
to be converted like this:

convert gxrom-r ROM48.G

(The convert program is found within the zip-file for 
the emulator.)


Here's the FAQ for the calculator:
http://www.hpcalc.org/hp48/docs/faq/48faq.html


http://www.hpcalc.org
doesn't seem to be controlled by Hewlett-Packard.


Regards,

Tor Olav
-- 
mailto:tor### [at] hotmailcom
http://www.crosswinds.net/~tok/tokrays.html

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Blasphemy!

Sounds like the TI-89, but, according to my dad TI calculators are less
well constructed.

I couldn't help but notice 6.1 in the FAQ though:
http://www.hpcalc.org/hp48/docs/faq/48faq-6.html#ss6.1

--
David Fontaine  <dav### [at] faricynet>  ICQ 55354965
My raytracing gallery:  http://davidf.faricy.net/

Post a reply to this message

David Fontaine wrote:
> 
> Blasphemy!

Then enlighten me !
(Tell me more about the TI-89 :)


> Sounds like the TI-89, but, according to my dad TI calculators are less
> well constructed.

When the HP-48 arrived several years ago there
simply were no competitioners. No other handheld
calculators at that time did even come close to 
what it could do.

But I haven't watched the evolving of other
calculators lately, so I'm not quite sure about 
the situation right now.


> I couldn't help but notice 6.1 in the FAQ though:
> http://www.hpcalc.org/hp48/docs/faq/48faq-6.html#ss6.1

Yes, I have heard that noise from some other HP-48s,
BUT NOT FROM MINE !


One interesting thing is that someone announced
that in addition to programming in RPL and Assembly, 
it is now also possible to program it in C.

I think it also is possible to insert memory cards
into it with 1 MB or more with battery backed RAM.

And the HP-49 seems to have built in FLASH for its 
firmware.

Right now I'm investigating the possibility to use 
a terminal emulation program (VT52bis) running on my 
HP-48 to log into servers through my Siemens C35i 
mobile telephone (which has a built in ISDN/Analog 
modem.)


And the HP48's IR-port can even be used for remote 
control of TVs, HiFi equipment, etc.


Tor Olav
-- 
mailto:tor### [at] hotmailcom
http://www.crosswinds.net/~tok/tokrays.html

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The 48 sounds pretty much the same as the 89.

The 89 has the old carbon contact buttons with the rubber sheet. Those wear
out after many years, fixing an old-skool Nintendo controller the rubber
sheet was practically shredded. Stuff like that.

10Mhz Motorola 68000. :D

The 89 does symbolic calculation, derivation and integration (symbolically),
FLASH ROM for the upgradeable ROM and for the archive memory, where you can
store variables and stuff that don't get edited, like most asm games. It's
got 188k user-available RAM and 384k FLASHROM. Nice high-res display,
160x100. Everything is displayed as it would be written in a textbook. It has
tons of functions, like complex zeroes, taylor series, limit, sigma including
to infinity, product including to infinity, 3D graphing. The algebraic solver
can take any number of entries compounded by 'and', like 'y=2x^4+5 and y=5x
and x>2', and it can return expressions if the solution isn't a number. And
of course differential equation graphing and all that. I don't think RAM is
upgradeable, but there are 3rd party RAM expansions that use the link port.

There is now a freeware 3rd party gcc compiler for it too. Woohoo!

--
David Fontaine  <dav### [at] faricynet>  ICQ 55354965
My raytracing gallery:  http://davidf.faricy.net/

Post a reply to this message

David Fontaine <dav### [at] faricynet> wrote:
: There is now a freeware 3rd party gcc compiler for it too. Woohoo!

  Does this mean that it would be possible to compile the plain ascii version
of povray to it?

-- 
char*i="b[7FK@`3NB6>B:b3O6>:B:b3O6><`3:;8:6f733:>::b?7B>:>^B>C73;S1";
main(_,c,m){for(m=32;c=*i++-49;c&m?puts(""):m)for(_=(
c/4)&7;putchar(m),_--?m:(_=(1<<(c&3))-1,(m^=3)&3););}    /*- Warp -*/

Post a reply to this message

Warp wrote:

> David Fontaine <dav### [at] faricynet> wrote:
> : There is now a freeware 3rd party gcc compiler for it too. Woohoo!
>
>   Does this mean that it would be possible to compile the plain ascii version
> of povray to it?

It'd take a lot of modification since TIs don't have floating point. You have to
use a struct ti_float (bcd) and special functions to do all the math.

--
David Fontaine  <dav### [at] faricynet>  ICQ 55354965
My raytracing gallery:  http://davidf.faricy.net/

Post a reply to this message

David Fontaine <dav### [at] faricynet> wrote:
: It'd take a lot of modification since TIs don't have floating point. You have to
: use a struct ti_float (bcd) and special functions to do all the math.

  If gcc is ported in the right way, then the compiler would handle all
that automatically.
  For example, you can perfectly compile povray for a 386/486 with no FPU.
It will be slower, of course, but it will run.

-- 
char*i="b[7FK@`3NB6>B:b3O6>:B:b3O6><`3:;8:6f733:>::b?7B>:>^B>C73;S1";
main(_,c,m){for(m=32;c=*i++-49;c&m?puts(""):m)for(_=(
c/4)&7;putchar(m),_--?m:(_=(1<<(c&3))-1,(m^=3)&3););}    /*- Warp -*/

Post a reply to this message

David Fontaine wrote:
> 
> The 48 sounds pretty much the same as the 89.
> 
> The 89 has the old carbon contact buttons with the rubber sheet. Those wear
> out after many years, fixing an old-skool Nintendo controller the rubber
> sheet was practically shredded. Stuff like that.

It's a pity that they use this solution !

Some 8 years ago I had to buy several spare rubber 
sheets for my ZX Spectrum.

> 10Mhz Motorola 68000. :D

=)

Cool ! I like those.

This may be a good reason for me to have a closer look 
at the TI-89.

Maybe I could make some interesting electronic add-on-
gizmos for it.

Is it possible to access the uProcessor bus from the 
outside of the calculator ?


> The 89 does symbolic calculation, derivation and integration (symbolically),
> FLASH ROM for the upgradeable ROM and for the archive memory, where you can
> store variables and stuff that don't get edited, like most asm games. It's
> got 188k user-available RAM and 384k FLASHROM. Nice high-res display,
> 160x100. Everything is displayed as it would be written in a textbook. It has
> tons of functions, like complex zeroes, taylor series, limit, sigma including
> to infinity, product including to infinity, 3D graphing. The algebraic solver
> can take any number of entries compounded by 'and', like 'y=2x^4+5 and y=5x
> and x>2', and it can return expressions if the solution isn't a number. And
> of course differential equation graphing and all that. I don't think RAM is
> upgradeable, but there are 3rd party RAM expansions that use the link port.
> There is now a freeware 3rd party gcc compiler for it too. Woohoo!

Sounds promising !

Are there any emulators for it ?


Regards,

Tor Olav
-- 
mailto:tor### [at] hotmailcom
http://www.crosswinds.net/~tok/tokrays.html

Post a reply to this message

Tor Olav Kristensen wrote:

> It's a pity that they use this solution !
>
> Some 8 years ago I had to buy several spare rubber
> sheets for my ZX Spectrum.

Yeah, stupid rubber sheets. And the 89 is a lot harder to take apart than the other
8x's because it has hex-wrench screws.


> Cool ! I like those.

:)


> This may be a good reason for me to have a closer look
> at the TI-89.
>
> Maybe I could make some interesting electronic add-on-
> gizmos for it.
>
> Is it possible to access the uProcessor bus from the
> outside of the calculator ?

I don't know. You can do a lot of stuff through the linkport, but I'm not sure
what.


> Sounds promising !
>
> Are there any emulators for it ?

Might wanna try ti89.acz.org

--
David Fontaine  <dav### [at] faricynet>  ICQ 55354965
My raytracing gallery:  http://davidf.faricy.net/

Post a reply to this message

In article <3A5E8C1D.E7F164A9@faricy.net>, David Fontaine 
<dav### [at] faricynet> wrote:

> 10Mhz Motorola 68000. :D

Not far from the Mac Plus I have in the basement... :-)
Higher resolution screen, more memory, nicer OS, but a bit bulkier...oh, 
and the Mac Plus has an '030 upgrade. ;-)

-- 
Christopher James Huff
Personal: chr### [at] maccom, http://homepage.mac.com/chrishuff/
TAG: chr### [at] tagpovrayorg, http://tag.povray.org/

<><

Post a reply to this message

David Fontaine wrote:
> 
> Tor Olav Kristensen wrote:
>... 
> > Are there any emulators for it ?
> 
> Might wanna try ti89.acz.org


I couldn't find any emulators for the TI-89 there.
(Only emulators for MC68000)


How does the TI-89 compare to the TI-92 ?
Is the TI-92 TI's top model ?

-- 
Best regards,

Tor Olav

mailto:tor### [at] hotmailcom
http://www.crosswinds.net/~tok/tokrays.html

Post a reply to this message

Tor Olav Kristensen wrote:

> I couldn't find any emulators for the TI-89 there.
> (Only emulators for MC68000)

Hmm... ticalc.org might


> How does the TI-89 compare to the TI-92 ?
> Is the TI-92 TI's top model ?

I believe so. TI-89 is essentially the same, IIRC smaller screen, no
Geometry Package or whatever it's called, and no QWERTY keypad (which is
a good thing in the confines of testing regulations etc).

--
David Fontaine  <dav### [at] faricynet>  ICQ 55354965
My raytracing gallery:  http://davidf.faricy.net/

Post a reply to this message

> How does the TI-89 compare to the TI-92 ?
> Is the TI-92 TI's top model ?

either way, bound to be better than my crappy TI-80


--
Rick

POV-Ray News & Resources - http://povray.co.uk
Kitty5 WebDesign - http://kitty5.com
Hi-Impact web site design & database driven e-commerce
TEL : +44 (01625) 266358 - FAX : +44 (01625) 611913 - ICQ : 15776037

PGP Public Key
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Post a reply to this message

"David Fontaine" wrote:
> Tor Olav Kristensen wrote:
> > How does the TI-89 compare to the TI-92 ?
> > Is the TI-92 TI's top model ?
>
> I believe so.

Well obviously you've never heard about the TI-106! ;)
I have that one and a TI-83...

Rune
--
\ Include files, tutorials, 3D images, raytracing jokes,
/ The POV Desktop Theme, and The POV-Ray Logo Contest can
\ all be found at http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk (updated January 6)
/ Also visit http://www.povrayusers.org

Post a reply to this message

Rune wrote:

> > > How does the TI-89 compare to the TI-92 ?
> > > Is the TI-92 TI's top model ?
> >
> > I believe so.
>
> Well obviously you've never heard about the TI-106! ;)

;)
Obviously that is not a TI graphing calculator.

--
David Fontaine  <dav### [at] faricynet>  ICQ 55354965
My raytracing gallery:  http://davidf.faricy.net/

Post a reply to this message

Warp wrote:

> David Fontaine <dav### [at] faricynet> wrote:
> : It'd take a lot of modification since TIs don't have floating point. You have to
> : use a struct ti_float (bcd) and special functions to do all the math.
>
>   If gcc is ported in the right way, then the compiler would handle all
> that automatically.
>   For example, you can perfectly compile povray for a 386/486 with no FPU.
> It will be slower, of course, but it will run.

There has been a c compiler for the hp48 for a long time.

I got my hp48gx as an upgrade to my TI-81 back before the TI-92 existed.  I have been
keeping track of new calculators as they come out, waiting, hoping that someone would
come out with something better.  So far no one has.  Sure there are calculators with
advantages over the hp48gx, but not as a whole package.  I would like now to compare
some of the advantages.

HP 48GX

1. I can play Beethoven on the built in speaker

2. I can use the infrared port to shoot messages across the room to a friend, or
control my tv

3. Can display gray scale images like the one I have of Claudia Shiffer

4. Unit conversions.  You can tag every number you enter with the unit it was measured
in.  Then instantly convert to the desired unit after the calculations are complete.
I bet NASA wouldn't have lost the Mars probe due to incorrect units if they had used
this system.  ALL of my classmates in physics class were jealous that I finished in
one quarter the time.

5.  Equation library.  Forget one of those formulas you need all the time.  No
problem, almost everything you would ever need is there, just look it up.  Also has
constants.

6. Durability.  I knew several people who had to have their TI fixed because they
dropped it on the floor.  My calculator is incredibly durable.  I was usually at the
bottom of my bag under 30 pounds of books.  I demonstrate this by pounding it against
hard surfaces.

7. Easy file transfers.  The hp understands .txt files, so it is easy to type notes on
your computer and send them through the wire to your calculator.  Easier actually than
trying to type on a TI-92 keyboard.  I think the rule about no qwerty keyboards for
tests is stupid.  Also you don't need any special software to transfer files.  I can
do it with any terminal program I have ever tried.

8. RPN is addictive, and fast.  There are many places where the notation hp uses save
so much time.  For example you can write a list, and perform the same computation with
every value in the list simultaneously.

9.  Works like a computer.  File system is very familiar.  I knew many people who
actually replaced the OS on their TI's

TI

1.  Very fast data transfer.  Transferring a one kilobyte file between to hp
calculators will take a minute.  Between to TI calculators the rate is over 32
kilobytes a second.  Now that's a lot better than my internet connection ( I want
broadband).  This shouldn't be too surprising considering that they make modem chips.

2. Speed.  The new TI calculators are 10 MHz.  My Hp is only 4 Mhz.  They will smoke
it any day.

3. Easy to use.  They do not use RPN, and many things are only accessible from menus.
For me this is not a positive.  It took me half a day to learn to use my calculator,
and it was worth it.  It took me longer to learn POV-Ray and it has been worth it.

Things I want in my future calculator.

1.  More power.  Faster processor more memory.

2.  More better symbolic math.  They should simply call the people at wolfram
research.

3.  Should play mp3's and have a headphone jack.

4.  Color display capable of displaying millions of colors.

5.  Good games should be in rom, like sonic the hedgehog.

6.  Built in Remote program

7.  Fast standardized data interface.  USB maybe.

8.  C compiler

9.  POV-Ray

Dan Johnson

Post a reply to this message

In article <3A6### [at] hotmailcom>, Dan Johnson 
<zap### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:

> Things I want in my future calculator.

How far in the future? Using current technology or nonexistant/highly 
expensive technology?


> 1.  More power.  Faster processor more memory.

Definitely.


> 3.  Should play mp3's and have a headphone jack.

Hmm, that would certainly require #1...


> 4.  Color display capable of displaying millions of colors.

Millions? I think 256 will be the most you can hope for for a 
while...and personally I would value higher resolution more.
Hmm...semi-flexible OLED color display with thousands of colors...it 
could be big, say 6*8 inches, and slide in and out of the side of the 
calculator, rolling up inside it to save space. And it would be 
unbreakable, though it might wear out from the constant flexing. It 
would be cheap to replace, though.


> 5.  Good games should be in rom, like sonic the hedgehog.

This is a *calculator*! ;-)
There shouldn't be any reason for them not to be available, but many of 
the people buying them would consider games a waste of money and ROM 
space. And even rewritable rom is too slow...the calculator should use 
Microdrives. They have them up to 1GB now, and the disk platter is the 
size of a quarter...


> 6.  Built in Remote program

You mean a program to use the infrared port as a remote control? Good 
idea...


> 7.  Fast standardized data interface.  USB maybe.

Or FireWire...(IEEE-1394). That should be fast enough. :-)
It should be able to talk to a USB printer, too...that would be a nice 
way to get high-resolution color graphics. It should be able to charge 
itself while plugged in, too.


> 8.  C compiler

Or at least a simplified C variant...


> 9.  POV-Ray

Right. :-)

How about:
~100MHz RISC processor

8MB RAM for active stuff and video memory

2 slots for micro-hard drives for storage and virtual memory

modified USB port (the connector and cable would need to be made less 
bulky, but the other end could be standard)

slide-out 16-bit color 6*8 inch OLED display with 640*480 resolution, 
touch sensitive screen optional.

Decent quality built in microphone and speaker, microphone and headphone 
jack.

Mini-touch pad.

Built-in cell phone capability, and internet/e-mail access. (cell phones 
are getting too small anyway...I think they are going to have to start 
combining these things soon, or you will keep loosing them...)

Software including: remote control emulator, simplified Java virtual 
machine, C/C++ compiler, and of course, math and graphing software. Oh, 
and *good* handwriting recognition. Optional game packs.

Where do you draw the line between high-end calculator and palm computer?

-- 
Christopher James Huff
Personal: chr### [at] maccom, http://homepage.mac.com/chrishuff/
TAG: chr### [at] tagpovrayorg, http://tag.povray.org/

<><

Post a reply to this message

> 2.  More better symbolic math.  They should simply call the people at wolfram
> research.

Have you tried ALG48 and Erable combined?  It's not Mathmatica, but it's pretty good.

Post a reply to this message

Dan Johnson wrote:

> HP 48GX
>
> 1. I can play Beethoven on the built in speaker

I hardly see how you can get decent quality music on a calculator. "Beep beep beep
boooooop, beep beep beep boooooop, beep beep beep boop beep beep beep boop beep beep
beep
boop" (that was Beethoven's 5th BTW ;).


> 2. I can use the infrared port to shoot messages across the room to a friend, or
> control my tv

Okay, that's cool.


> 3. Can display gray scale images like the one I have of Claudia Shiffer

Built-in? The TIs have plenty of user-created grayscale programs.


> 4. Unit conversions.  You can tag every number you enter with the unit it was
measured
> in.  Then instantly convert to the desired unit after the calculations are complete.
> I bet NASA wouldn't have lost the Mars probe due to incorrect units if they had used
> this system.  ALL of my classmates in physics class were jealous that I finished in
> one quarter the time.

I'm not sure what you mean "instantly convert", but TIs have unit conversion. In the
89
it's as simple as typing "48_kg>_lbs".


> 5.  Equation library.  Forget one of those formulas you need all the time.  No
> problem, almost everything you would ever need is there, just look it up.  Also has
> constants.

That would be helpful, though on the 89 it's pretty easy to get most of them. eg
"Solve(a*x^2+b*x+c=0,x)" and it'll give you quadratic formula. It has built-in trig
identities.


> 6. Durability.  I knew several people who had to have their TI fixed because they
> dropped it on the floor.  My calculator is incredibly durable.  I was usually at the
> bottom of my bag under 30 pounds of books.  I demonstrate this by pounding it
against
> hard surfaces.

I've dropped my TI-89 a few times. But every time it freaks me out. I don't trust it
to
take that abuse.


> 7. Easy file transfers.  The hp understands .txt files, so it is easy to type notes
on
> your computer and send them through the wire to your calculator.  Easier actually
than
> trying to type on a TI-92 keyboard.  I think the rule about no qwerty keyboards for
> tests is stupid.  Also you don't need any special software to transfer files.  I can
> do it with any terminal program I have ever tried.

The 89 has a text editor, and it's easy enough to type it on the computer using the
graphlink software. They are stored on the calc as plain ascii, but there's no direct
compatability with .txt I think. Oh well, use graphlink, cut-n-paste from Notepad.
Easy
enough.


> 8. RPN is addictive, and fast.  There are many places where the notation hp uses
save
> so much time.  For example you can write a list, and perform the same computation
with
> every value in the list simultaneously.

I don't know about the time it takes to type stuff in, but the TI can do operations on
lists very easily.


> 9.  Works like a computer.  File system is very familiar.  I knew many people who
> actually replaced the OS on their TI's

TI-89 has directories and custom file types. But no sub-directories. You access them
with
a backslash too.


> TI
>
> 1.  Very fast data transfer.  Transferring a one kilobyte file between to hp
> calculators will take a minute.  Between to TI calculators the rate is over 32
> kilobytes a second.  Now that's a lot better than my internet connection ( I want
> broadband).  This shouldn't be too surprising considering that they make modem
chips.

Calc to calc, but not graphlink. Unless you build your own. (Theirs is 9600.)


> 2. Speed.  The new TI calculators are 10 MHz.  My Hp is only 4 Mhz.  They will smoke
> it any day.

>;) :p mwuhahaha


> 3. Easy to use.  They do not use RPN, and many things are only accessible from
menus.
> For me this is not a positive.  It took me half a day to learn to use my calculator,
> and it was worth it.  It took me longer to learn POV-Ray and it has been worth it.

The 89 has many many keyboard shortcuts. You can even get any greek letter by pressing
diamond-left parenthese-letter in aplha mode. It has four function keys, alpha, shift
(which works as on a computer, and it has cut-copy-paste features), diamond and 2nd,
and
pressing diamond-EE gives you the diamond keyboard map. As for menus there is a new
system
with menus along the top (like in Windows), with F1-F8 keys to acces them and every
element has a number shortcut, you can customize them too. Compared to the old TIs it
has
a very very nice OS.


> Things I want in my future calculator.
>
> 1.  More power.  Faster processor more memory.

Don't we all. :) As for mem, even some of the current calcs use more than the
processor
can address, so they page it. Why don't they make one with like a Pentium I? Too hot?
They'd be cheap and they'd fit.


> 2.  More better symbolic math.  They should simply call the people at wolfram
> research.

"More better"? The 89 has pretty good symbolic math, I don't know what they could add.
For
example:
0^-3 is undef but 0^-2 is inifinity. (think asymptote) Everything is automatically
simplified as far as it can possibly be, and if you have it written a different way
you
can just enter one expression equal to the other and it says true or false. Does
complex
solutions too.


> 3.  Should play mp3's and have a headphone jack.

;)


> 4.  Color display capable of displaying millions of colors.

Yes!


> 5.  Good games should be in rom, like sonic the hedgehog.

I dunno, teachers would get awfully suspicious.


> 6.  Built in Remote program

To control your TV and stuff? ha!


> 7.  Fast standardized data interface.  USB maybe.

TI's calc-to-calc is pretty fast. You can't have a transfer faster than your other
compnents anyway.


> 8.  C compiler
> 9.  POV-Ray

You could have those easily now if it weren't for the fact they would take all your
mem.

--
David Fontaine  <dav### [at] faricynet>  ICQ 55354965
My raytracing gallery:  http://davidf.faricy.net/

Post a reply to this message

Kevin Wampler wrote:

> > 2.  More better symbolic math.  They should simply call the people at wolfram
> > research.
>
> Have you tried ALG48 and Erable combined?  It's not Mathmatica, but it's pretty
good.

One of my favorites.  Would be on my calc now if I hadn't broken my computer interface
cable.  I don't remember it simplifying trigonometric expressions, does it?

Dan Johnson

Post a reply to this message

I think so, although as I remember Erable does a slightle better job of it (not that
ALG48
does a bad job though)

Dan Johnson wrote:

> Kevin Wampler wrote:
>
> > > 2.  More better symbolic math.  They should simply call the people at wolfram
> > > research.
> >
> > Have you tried ALG48 and Erable combined?  It's not Mathmatica, but it's pretty
good.
>
> One of my favorites.  Would be on my calc now if I hadn't broken my computer
interface
> cable.  I don't remember it simplifying trigonometric expressions, does it?
>
> Dan Johnson

Post a reply to this message

David Fontaine wrote:

> Dan Johnson wrote:
>
> > HP 48GX
> >
> > 1. I can play Beethoven on the built in speaker
>
> I hardly see how you can get decent quality music on a calculator. "Beep beep beep
> boooooop, beep beep beep boooooop, beep beep beep boop beep beep beep boop beep beep
beep
> boop" (that was Beethoven's 5th BTW ;).

It depends, since the HP48 has a clock, there are music programs out there that time
music
playback accurately enough that you can program multiple parts of a song into
different
calculators, and so long as you start them playing at the same time, the drift isn't
at all
noticeable, even over reasonably long songs.  I once set four HS48s up to play
Contrapunctus I
from Bach's The Art of the Fugue, and it didn't sound too bad.

Post a reply to this message