 |
|
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
Sadly Doesn't look like moray will be ported at the moment...there no
$$$ in it, well then if thats the case, so be it...but would hate to see
it go along with my win95 partition though. I'm sure that there would be
lots of people willing to help out with the source..but its still early
days for winmoray, and the moray guys have been good to us through the
years, and like you say steff, all it takes is a little pushin.
Moray is a great app, even though i said i'ld pay double (amapi is $25-
had to sneak that in..sory:). Its because the Linux enviroment is
constantly developing (at speeds MS could only dream of) people are
coding all the time for it and I would hate to see a Moray ripoff, but
as the saying goes "If you don't do it someone else will"
I believe linux and its many free appliations will play a big part in
disrupting ol Bill Gates and his dream of the MS empire in the future to
come...people will soon realise the Advantages of Linux (besides being
FREE), and its good will of its many developers, heres a little quote i
got off www.debian.org (one of the developers of Linux)
i found interesting and some of you might too.
"A better question is how do software companies get away with charging
so much? Software is not like making a car. Once you've made one copy of
your software, the production costs to make a million more are tiny
(there's a good reason Microsoft has so many billions in the bank). Look
at it another way: if you had an endless supply of sand in your
backyard, you might be willing to give sand away. It would be foolish,
though, to pay for a truck to take it to others. You would make them
come and get it themselves (equivalent to downloading off the net) or
they can pay someone else to deliver it to their door (equivalent to
buying a CD). This is exactly how Debian operates and why most of the
CDs are so cheap (less than $5 U.S. for 2 CDs). , "
yup $5 ...cheaper than dos everwas..yet 10times more powerful.
Peace,
Jules
Steff...might've inadvertently email ya a copy..sory :)
> On Sat, 11 Apr 1998 19:24:18 +1000, Julian <hgl### [at] tig comau> wrote:
>
> >Stefan Blandow wrote:
> >> On 3 Mar 1998 19:57:48 GMT, bob### [at] clodomirrezelenstfr (Roland Mas)
> >> wrote:
> Hei, thanks, Jules, this looks very promising! The viewport handling
> and all, it obviously breathes intelligence. It really looks nice!
>
> >Peace,
> >Jules
>
> Peace Jules.
>
> steff
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
Julian wrote in message <3533A723.3AAC4386@tig.com.au>...
>"A better question is how do software companies get away with charging
>so much? Software is not like making a car. Once you've made one copy of
>your software, the production costs to make a million more are tiny...
[snip]
Hi!
I don't want to go into the discussion about Linux / Windows good or not,
because I don't know nothing about Linux and I never use Windows 95, only
NT.
But to respond to the lines above:
That's a quote that *reaallly* sounds good, but when thought about (not even
very hard) it quickly becomes obvious, that it is quite some way off the
reality!
Anybody who thinks that softwaredevelopment is cheap or can be cheap, lives
with the head in the clouds.
TANSTAAFL!
O.k., if somebody really get's his/her heartblood into a project, it can be
produced quite cheaply, but this someone then also needs some other income,
or the project will soon die!
Software is in so huge demand that developers can happily ask for nice
salaries (though nowhere near exorbitant for the huge bulk of them), or
otherwise just go to some other firm (and I am happy with that, because I am
one myself :-).
And these salaries just have to be payed! Now think about the thousands of
man-hours that go into the big commerical software - or even Linux - and sum
that upp...
This is even something Linus Thorwald himself recognized in a way: I read a
quote where he stated to not like shareware, because a) it is usually
"guiltware" (ok, I should pay, but I don't, so I feel guilty) and b) really
most shareware comes nowhere near the commercial products, but you still
have to pay for it, if it is so bad then it should at least be free and c)
you don't get the sourcecode.
I see a) as something everybody has to take up with himself and c) as
something most people are not really bothered about (hey, I myself - as a
developer - never feel the urge to look into the sources of the software I
use, I hate looking into other people's sourcecode!)
And b), if read from another point of view, actually means: Shareware is
mostly crap (or at least far behind commercial products), because it
generates very little money, and developers therefor just can't afford to
give it as much time as it would need to make it a good product (that's why
we have to wait some time for new Moray versions: Lutz and Markus have to
work on "real" income-generating products inbetween their Moray-"Hobby" -
this is not to say that Moray is crap! Far from that!!!).
The point, even indirectly stated by the father of Linux, is: No money, no
good software.
Yes, there are the *really* good projects (like Linux and POV-Ray) that are
free. But they only exist because of a dedicated group of hundereds
(thousands?) of programmers that put in a little time now and then.
Now imagine, that all software would be developed that way: That would
essentially mean, that all software developers of the world put in a little
time now and then to produce all the software needed. And it is easy to see
that this is not possible, because all the developers in the world already
put in nearly 100% of their time and it still isn't enough!!! That's why you
read numbers like 10% missing IT personell in the U.S., which already
threatens the State's economy!
And there you are again: They all would have to work fulltime, thus having
no other way to generate income, so they have to be paid, so the customers
have to pay for the software (or who else? the state, who would then finance
that with taxes?) -> Software (the big bulk of it) can't be free, and, with
the argument of Linus Thorwald, we should be happy for it, because otherwise
the quality would be much lower.
-- Johannes.
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
Julian wrote in message <3533A723.3AAC4386@tig.com.au>...
>Sadly Doesn't look like moray will be ported at the moment...there no
>$$$ in it, well then if thats the case, so be it...but would hate to see
>
>I believe linux and its many free appliations will play a big part in
>disrupting ol Bill Gates and his dream of the MS empire in the future to
>come...people will soon realise the Advantages of Linux (besides being
>FREE), and its good will of its many developers, heres a little quote i
These two statements sum up why there aren't very many people willing
to port applications that cost $$ to Linux. Linux is free, that's why
people
like it. Also stated is free software to go along with the free OS. So why
would a developer want to port a piece of SW that is earning him/her
$$ to a platform that everyone expects everything to be free. I constantly
get request to port to Linux, but if I did port it would take me at least
a year.
> constantly developing (at speeds MS could only dream of) people are
> coding all the time for it and I would hate to see a Moray ripoff, but
> as the saying goes "If you don't do it someone else will"
I constantly get requests and see requests for Moray to port to Linux. My
question is why there isn't a group working on a Moray "ripoff" for Linux?
I say go for it. The Linux people should be able to "ripoff" Moray at
speeds
only Windows developers can dream of.
> "A better question is how do software companies get away with charging
> so much? Software is not like making a car. Once you've made one copy of
> your software, the production costs to make a million more are tiny
The cost of SW is not in its media costs. Its in the cost of the bits that
go on the
media.
Jeff
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
I fully understand what you a saying, in a roundabout way :)
Linux Proves and and proves time and again that free is not crap..not
substandard to "commercial products" but can be just as good if not
superior, but its developement and of its products must be approached in
a different way i.e a collaborative via GPL way. :)
Look at Blender!! is free! company is obviously making a comfortable
income..says "hey what the hell, lets give it away!"
but not all SW companys can do this. so we are lucky.
If the likes of bill gates got their greedy little hands on it you could
expect "hey lets make lotsa $$$$ on this..and hey we hardly even spend a
DIME on its developement..Muahhahaha" :)
All that aside, Moray is great!!
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
I wasn't going to jump into this thread, because it is not on the subject of
Moray, but I couldn't help it.
Julian wrote in message <3535E457.3FDCAD7A@tig.com.au>...
[snip]
>If the likes of bill gates got their greedy little hands on it you could
[snip]
I'm just sick of people bashing Bill Gates. Sure... he may be greedy, but
having never met him, I don't know. If you think that all rich people are
greedy, you are mistaken. Bill gets his salary because free people in a
free society are willing to buy his product. He gets the vast majority of
his wealth because free people in a free society are willing to buy stock in
his company... he doesn't set the price of MS stock, others do. The only
way to get rid of the rich is to get rid of freedom.
Eric
--------------------------------
"Of all tyrannies a tyranny exercised for the good of its
victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to
live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral
busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes
sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those
who torment us for our own good will torment us without end
for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."
* C. S. Lewis (1898-1963)
--------------------------------
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Heights/2354/
http://www.datasync.com/~reba/
>expect "hey lets make lotsa $$$$ on this..and hey we hardly even spend a
>DIME on its developement..Muahhahaha" :)
>All that aside, Moray is great!!
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
On Fri, 17 Apr 1998 23:59:46 -0500, "Eric Freeman"
<eri### [at] geocitiescom> wrote:
>I wasn't going to jump into this thread, because it is not on the subject of
>Moray, but I couldn't help it.
>
>Julian wrote in message <3535E457.3FDCAD7A@tig.com.au>...
>[snip]
>>If the likes of bill gates got their greedy little hands on it you could
>[snip]
>
>I'm just sick of people bashing Bill Gates. Sure... he may be greedy, but
>having never met him, I don't know. If you think that all rich people are
>greedy, you are mistaken.
Julian didn't mention the word rich one time. So, what are you talkin'
about? We're talkin' about style here, Eric.
Bill Gates is sellin' the boulevard-press of coding, man! With an
outlook of how the mass might imagine an egghead who nows! But he is
just a selfmirroring lunatic, who wants power! And if you don't watch
out, you'll find out. If you ever will. Your' talkin' freedom? Freedom
starts with education on this earth, my friend! That's the highest
responsibility, one can take here! One tragedy with nouveaux riches is
their lack in education for the responsibility to educate. I know
rich people, very rich people and I know poor people, very poor
people. I have friends amongst them. But I would never say, I like
rich people or I like poor people. That's ridiculous and insane.
There's only people, one by one. And I would not like Bill Gates to be
my neighbour. I would not want to buy a thing from him. But I do like
to use Moray. And Softronics probably choose MS stuff because they
want to survive.
> Bill gets his salary because free people in a
>free society are willing to buy his product. He gets the vast majority of
>his wealth because free people in a free society are willing to buy stock in
>his company... he doesn't set the price of MS stock, others do. The only
>way to get rid of the rich is to get rid of freedom.
The thing with the rich seems to be more a problem at your side.
>
>Eric
>
>--------------------------------
>"Of all tyrannies a tyranny exercised for the good of its
>victims may be the most oppressive.
Oh boy! This sounds to me like the swan song for Mr. Gates! He's the
one, who's killing brands with a smile on his face! He, really or not,
who will ever know that, thinks, he's the bit messiah of the world,
man! Are you blind? He's trying to kill every market, he can reach!
He is trying with allmight and would not hesitate to monopolyse any
market he can reach! Did you ever try to picture this guy, leaning
back, sighing, smoking a cigar, saying, that's enough now, let's live!
Can you?!? Never, man, I cannot! That's why I speak out!
Do we need such a man, who never stops?
We had one over here in germany, man, really exciting!
You may admire him for his thrust, but, oh, be careful !
>It may be better to
>live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral
>busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes
>sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those
>who torment us for our own good will torment us without end
sigh, man, sigh!
>for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."
> * C. S. Lewis (1898-1963)
>--------------------------------
>http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Heights/2354/
>http://www.datasync.com/~reba/
>>expect "hey lets make lotsa $$$$ on this..and hey we hardly even spend a
>>DIME on its developement..Muahhahaha" :)
>>All that aside, Moray is great!!
>
>
steff
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
Bill gets his money because he effectively back stabs his opponents. Look what
he did to IBM and OS/2. Supported them until they had tons of money invested in
OS/2 then came out with NT to crush OS/2. People buy his products because it is
the only one out there that other companies are willing to support.
Eric Freeman wrote:
> Bill gets his salary because free people in a
> free society are willing to buy his product.
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
Stefan Blandow wrote:
::snip::
>
> Oh boy! This sounds to me like the swan song for Mr. Gates! He's the
> one, who's killing brands with a smile on his face! He, really or not,
> who will ever know that, thinks, he's the bit messiah of the world,
> man! Are you blind? He's trying to kill every market, he can reach!
> He is trying with allmight and would not hesitate to monopolyse any
> market he can reach! Did you ever try to picture this guy, leaning
> back, sighing, smoking a cigar, saying, that's enough now, let's live!
> Can you?!? Never, man, I cannot! That's why I speak out!
> Do we need such a man, who never stops?
> We had one over here in germany, man, really exciting!
> You may admire him for his thrust, but, oh, be careful !
>
> >It may be better to
> >live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral
> >busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes
> >sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those
> >who torment us for our own good will torment us without end
>
> sigh, man, sigh!
>
You guys all need to chill. I have but one comment on this matter. The
man knows how to play the game.
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
couldn't agree with you more stef.
Jules
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
Can we please dipense with the histrionics people. If you want to
froth at the mouth at the unfairness of whatever socio-poloitical
system you are part of go to alt.whatever.
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
|
|
