"Roberto Amorim" <wol### [at] hotmailcom> wrote in message
news:40f2f316@news.povray.org...
> > I'm not sure about the hoax idea, though. I suppose it could be the
> > wonderful and (un)talented IMBJR...
>
> Not likely, since there's no racial or sexual content on any of the
pictures
> this round, IIRC. ;-)
>


Are you sure?  Did you try doing palette manipulation on all of the
pictures?  ;-)

Actually, the IRTC doesn't allow pictures to be submitted in JPEG2000
format, so I think that would automatically disqualify him.

-- 
Jeremy
www.beantoad.com

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"Mike Raiford" <mra### [at] hotmailcom> wrote in message
news:40f2ee1c$1@news.povray.org...
> St. wrote:
>
> > "Mike Raiford" <mra### [at] hotmailcom> wrote in message
> > news:40f281b2$1@news.povray.org...
>
> >
> >     I don't disagree, but in the end, I don't think it was
entirely
> > their fault. I would say that the tutor was probably more to blame
> > than the students. He/she should have made sure that they entered
in
> > the proper way.
>
> Bingo!

   Heh...

>
>
> I'm not sure about the hoax idea, though. I suppose it could be the
> wonderful and (un)talented IMBJR...

    Could be, but I don't think so - a little 'too' childish for him
to do, if that's the case.

   Since the subject was raised though, it made me look quite a few
times, and there are some similarities, with, (what I think), are some
*good* differences with a few of them. It sure does make it hard to
score though, if at all...
   ~Steve~


>
> -- 
> ~Mike

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Roberto Amorim wrote:
<snip>
> About the Bryce images... there is at least one very good on-topic Bryce
> image there, and another good one yet slightly off-topic, IMHO. Perhaps

Yes, there are a few good Bryce entries, and one quite good one by a 
regular entrant.  I think the complaint is that they're disposable "look 
what I can do in 20 minutes using some stock textures and premade 
models" entries, not because they're Bryce entries.

> something very good will come out of all this. After all, art is a way of
> self-discovery - and perhaps someone who entered the competition for school
> reasons will find in it a bigger part of oneself, and later provide us with
> great images and concepts, even if the first attempts are feeble.

Yes, everyone has to start somewhere.  Actually, its refreshing to know 
that there is a class somewhere getting kids into this sort of thing. 
Where I went to school that would never have happened.

RG

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news:40f2ee1c$1@news.povray.org...
>
> I'm not sure about the hoax idea, though. I suppose it could be the
> wonderful and (un)talented IMBJR...

It's not the fist time this happens and the bizarre flurry of beginners'
Bryce/Rhino pics was noted before. During the "Decay" round, this IRTC
participant and computer teacher talked about a class assignment involving
both apps http://www.irtc.org/ftp/pub/stills/2003-10-31/arzfrmle.txt and at
least one element he used in his own image (the railing) appears in another
Bryce/Rhino picture in the same round. The dots being thus connected, it's
very likely that it's his class (at the Bellarmine Preparatory School) who
participates in the rounds, either as a class assignement or just by
themselves. The Bryce/Rhino combo is a dead giveaway as Rhino is a
professional, commercial tool unlikely to be owned by beginners.

G.

-- 

**********************
http://www.oyonale.com
**********************
- Graphic experiments
- POV-Ray and Poser computer images
- Posters

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Hi

In Reply:
>
>Nice entry, BTW...
>

Thanks,

I too love jumping in the deep end with a program- especially if its free.
The current topic sounds really good but I dont know whether I will have
time to enter. Iv only got this week and i'm supposed to be looking for a
job...

Can't wait to see this rounds results.

Peter

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"Vladimir" <nomail@nomail> wrote in message
news:web.40f3ff2d12882dfa14f564e0@news.povray.org...
> Hi
>
> In Reply:
> >
> >Nice entry, BTW...
> >
>
> Thanks,
>
> I too love jumping in the deep end with a program- especially if its
free.
> The current topic sounds really good but I dont know whether I will
have
> time to enter. Iv only got this week and i'm supposed to be looking
for a
> job...

    Then go get your job my friend - you can't beat what you want to
do in life - there will be plenty more comps/subjects to come yet.

>
> Can't wait to see this rounds results.

   Hmm... Me too. Good luck.

    ~Steve~


>
> Peter
>
>

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Hello,

 I find it is an intriguing question to pose about who is allowed to
enter/judge what level of images to IRTC, as it addresses the accuracy of
the voting system.  Though I, too, am disappointed in some of the
low-quality entries in the last few rounds, I do not find a problem with
the IRTC system.



 I find any negative affect is only temporary - about 2 weeks at most.  Once
the judges go through the images and vote, results equal image quality.
Any "quality/ability based contest/judging" will show identical results!

contestants) will create a new set of problems, worse than the ones we have
now.  Who is going to manage the extra workload?  How do we rank people?
What if we feel we are misplaced?  On what criteria are we to pre-judge an
artist's work in order to place them in categories?  Will the separated
contest protect us from cheating?  And so on.
 These cost-benefit analyses suggest not doing anything about lousy images.

 But there is a concern for sabotage.  20 bad entries could rate themselves
highly amongst themselves - or, more likely, they could all be from the
same person who is using pseudonyms in order to push votes to his or her
own image - and overwhelm the votes based on more objective criteria.
 This may be significant if actually practiced.  Which begs the follow-up


 I think probably not.  The expectation in this contest is that it really
does not mean anything.  At this point, it is not the Noble Prize in
Graphics, so does not have any *reason* to cheat, not even for notoriety.
The only people who would have a *vested* interest in cheating are - all of
you!  That's right, the people who submit images (give or take) are the
people who you are trying to impress, and very few others in the world.  If
you cheat, all of the other artists are will call you a cheat, and have the
image(s) removed.  The solution to the problem will probably present itself
if such sabotage ever occurs.  If the dynamic of IRTC changes in the future
(if awards become significant or valuable), this may have to be
reconsidered.

 BTW, the only way to tell if such sabotage occurs is to use statistical
analysis to discern if there is some pattern that is abnormal.  This is for
the IRTC mgmt to figure out, though, since they are the only ones with
access to the complete data set.

 What else can we do beyond asking people to be straightforward with their
entries?  Laws do not only set limits negatively, but also positively.  If
we start to create rules around the expectation that people will cheat, I
do not see there as being any truly positive effect.
 Besides, I actually think having unqualified people voting does more damage
to the fairness of the results than any poor imagery, or any cheating -
good artists or programmers are not automatically good judges.  At the same
time, I would not ask for any qualifying criteria to be met, since (true)
democracy provides more protection for fairness in general than
(qualitatively defined) aristocracy.


later,
Neal.

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On Sun, 11 Jul 2004, St. wrote:

>     Well, I think it depends on the subject, but people won't be put
>off. The IRTC over the years will get SO much better.
>
>     Stick around and see what happens...  ;)

	He who is wise counsels patience.

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"Raphael" <roo### [at] localhostlocaldomain> wrote in message
news:Pin### [at] localhostlocaldomain...
> On Sun, 11 Jul 2004, St. wrote:
>
> >     Well, I think it depends on the subject, but people won't be
put
> >off. The IRTC over the years will get SO much better.
> >
> >     Stick around and see what happens...  ;)
>
> He who is wise counsels patience.

   Indeed.   :)

   ~Steve~

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