On Sat, 20 Nov 1999 05:05:41 -0500, Matt Giwer <mgi### [at] giwersworldorg> wrote:

>	The following took about 10 minutes (start to finish) with
>photoshop. 
>
>http://giwersworld.org/artii/nraol.jpg
>
>	This one about an hour total including modifying the psi
>charcter
>
>http://giwersworld.org/artii/psicorp.jpg
>
>	It takes some hours in hell with PS and the plug-ins to learn it
>and I have some thousands of those hours. But I get feedback on
>my attempt in a couple seconds not hours regardless of
>complexity. I can gat a new trial and error faster than I can
>change the code in POV. 
>
>	And anyone try this in POV
>
>http://giwersworld.org/artii/perspec.jpg
>
>	and that was just noodling around with one of the plugins. I
>don't remember how long it took. 
>
>	So that is the difference to me. 
>
>	Now look at this one. 
>
>http://giwersworld.org/artii/pattack.jpg
>
>	The pyramid and the flyers are POV. The rest is PS and plugins.
>The benefit I first expected from POV is that I can get different
>perspectives and viewpoints on the POV parts trivially. But in PS
>I cannot move the ground plane without planning way ahead to want
>to move it and duplicating it without planning to do so is
>essentially impossible. But this was also just playing around one
>night, maybe a couple hours with a dozen variances and no
>planning at all. 
>
>	OK, I have bored you and bragged but those are examples of the
>differences between POV and raster rendering. 
>
 
The thread you just responded to, Matt, is two months old and I've nearly forgotten
why I
got so heated about things then.

I've had a good look at all the images you mentioned (and had a good browse around
your
web site :-)  I like to make positive comments about peoples' images (or suggest how I
think that they might be improved)  I had penned some comments on your images, but
have
decided not to post them as I am unable to be positive and cannot suggest any
improvements.

Thanks for getting me to look at them anyway.

It still doesn't help me much with my quandary of not being able to judge technical
merit
in an image when I haven't had experience in using methods other than POV-Ray.  Well I
suppose that's not entirely true as I have created images using Corel and similar
packages, but unlike you I have not spent hundreds of hours getting to know how to use
them best.  If and when I next enter the IRTC I suppose I shall just have to do as
before
and rely on fallible human judgement when voting on the other entries.

CU in another two months.

David
------------
dav### [at] cwcomnet
http://www.hamiltonite.mcmail.com
------------

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Nieminen Juha <war### [at] punarastascstutfi> wrote:
> Matt Giwer <mgi### [at] giwersworldorg> wrote:
> : 	And who is a novice?

>   The one who gets less than 10 points in the hardcore povrayer test :)

Actually, I'd do it like they do for costuming competitions at SF cons I've
been to.  You're a novice until you've won an award in the novice category,
then you're a journeyman.  When you've won 3 awards as a journeyman, you
become a master/advanced user.  Mind, this would be three categories, but
it'd work for 2 as well.  You could also do something of the form of "n
points where first gives you 4, 2nd 3, 3rd 2, and each category mention 1"
jumps you a rank.  It would require a bit of bookkeeping on someone's part,
though (could write a script to do it)

Geoff

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So you will write a script that tracks all of our POV knowledge in the style
of a Sci Fi Convention costuming competition?  I'll come as the Y axis --
and later, when I've had a bit to drink, the Z axis.

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Ian Witham <ian### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> So you will write a script that tracks all of our POV knowledge in the style
> of a Sci Fi Convention costuming competition?  I'll come as the Y axis --
> and later, when I've had a bit to drink, the Z axis.


Er, not exactly.  You track based on how well people have done previously in
the competition.  So everyone is considered a novice until they've proven
otherwise.  I'm not sure there's enough people entering the competition each
time, though.

Geoff

(and yes, I know you were just having fun, but...)

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