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Having seen the amount of comments regarding the IRTC's current pause, it's
clear that there is a real spirit of competition amongst many users who are
now looking for a productive outlet for that.
I've been associated with the IRTC since it was the 'RTC' and run by Matt
Kruse. However irtc.org has always been 'the' IRTC, and honestly I don't
expect this to change a lot. IMO the admins have done a fantastic job in
keeping the competition rolling for more than ten years. Even if the current
situation is not resolved there is no technical reason for the site to be
closed down (though of course it would be wise to modify any parts that refer
to accepting submissions and so forth).
However this is not the primary point I want to make in this post.
My point I think is that the IRTC can operate in parallel with whatever might
come up to serve as an outlet for this creative spirit of yours. It is not a
case of 'replacing' the IRTC, or even having a successor to it. Just for
there to be something suitable (and preferably fairly automated) that can
operate as your virtual sounding stage.
I can provide the POVCOMP site source code and web hosting for a new
competition. Long-time POV user Lance Birch, a professional web designer, is
willing to supervise and assist with the coding stage. We would need some
additional help there, as well as at least three trusted people who are
willing to make a long term commitment to supervising the operation of the
contest.
Going on, to me, the question is: what would pique your interest and keep it
long term? A clone of the IRTC? Or something quite different, but with a
similar flavor? Or something else entirely? Or even a competition that has no
set flavor - one that changes according to the times?
I would like to suggest one possibility. It would be interesting to be able
to conduct a series of competitions - of variable length according to
difficulty - that I would perhaps describe as the "POV-Team's Challenge".
This would involve us coming up with interesting or intriguing ideas for
renderings - either stills or animations - and challenging you guys to show
us what y'all can do. It need not be limited to POV-Ray, though of course
that's our primary focus.
I've no opinion how voting would work. But the winner(s) of each round would
get a nice virtual medal rendered in 100% recycled electrons and a spiffy
title of some sort. Possibly I could even tweak the news server web view to
auto-append an award JPG of some sort to the bottom of all their posts whilst
they hold the title (i.e. the badge stays there permanently, but only gets
added to posts they make whilst title-holder. Or something like that.)
Anyhow: what sort of ideas might we pitch? Here's a few that come to mind:
1. Challenge: make us laugh. No cliches! Be original.
2. Challenge: using http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/28710584/ as your
inspiration, come up with something different (no copies!) but that
invokes a similar sense (of, perhaps, anticipation?*) in viewers minds.
* this word makes me think of the RHPS. Anyone for a Rocky Horror round?
3. You are provided with a photograph of an equipment room of some sort
(perhaps a server room). It has plenty of electronic/computer gear/
wiring in it. You also get measurements of the room and of the larger
bits of furniture within it, sufficient to re-create a reasonable
facsimile of it.
Challenge: steampunk it. Photorealism is encouraged.
4. You are supplied a music track in mp3 format and a data file in text
format, suitable for parsing by POV-Ray's SDL.
Prior to the start of the competition, a group of you would have created
a set of SDL routines to manipulate, interpolate, and otherwise use this
raw data in order to be able to perform the below task (if you're not
using POV, you will have to find your own way to deal with it).
The data file contains sufficient information that the audio can be
matched to each of the 3 or 4 instruments used to record it, such that
an instrument or scene could be animated in time with it.
Challenge: create an animation using the above. It is not required that
you animate instruments. You may choose to make something trippy or
cool coupled with the beat. It's up to you. Length should be at least
20 seconds, but would preferably be the same as that of the audio file.
To be reasonably feasible I would expect that most of the animation
would have to be automated - but SDL is one of POV's strengths.
[This challenge was inspired by Animusic*, LOR**, the 'Wizards of
Winter' video***, and similar items over the years].
* http://www.animusic.com/
** http://www.lotsofrobots.com/
*** http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IK90Ys2LhSo
5. You are supplied with a set of images that, if put together, form a
short film (in the region of 300 seconds or so). This movie is shot
using a real video camera and consists of a defined room or outdoor
area, the measurements of which are supplied to you, along with the
details and locations of one or two of the major items of furniture
present. You are additionally provided with camera tracking data* in
a form suitable to be used in SDL, plus some macros to deal with it.
The actual details of the video, where it is shot, and what it contains
(e.g. if there are people present, and if so, what they are doing/saying
etc) will be determined by reasonable consensus in advance.
Challenge: render something into this scene such that the finished
result appears seamless. You can choose any part of the supplied data,
including non-sequential portions, but the result should be at least 20
seconds long.
[Obviously, http://runevision.com/3d/anims/hologram.asp inspired this].
* If possible this will be high-accuracy date captured from the physical
camera motion, if we can get access to the equipment required. If not
then it would be derived.
4 and 5 would obviously be longer-term projects and may run in parallel with
shorter ones. Participants in all of these challenges would be encouraged to
share WIP's, techniques, and macros with others if they so choose. The spirit
of the challenges to experiment, learn, enjoy, do new things, and most of all
create neat stuff with POV.
So. Anyone interested?
-- Chris
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Chris:
Regardless of the future state of the IRTC, I'd love to see some challenges come from
the POV-Ray team. I think many of us have been looking arround for *different*
challenges lately, for example
CGSphere. I especially like the idea of the more complex, long-term challenges that
you present, #3, #4 and #5. Excellent ideas!
Kyle
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Chris Cason wrote:
> Having seen the amount of comments regarding the IRTC's current pause, it's
> clear that there is a real spirit of competition amongst many users who are
> now looking for a productive outlet for that.
>
> I've been associated with the IRTC since it was the 'RTC' and run by Matt
> Kruse. However irtc.org has always been 'the' IRTC, and honestly I don't
> expect this to change a lot. IMO the admins have done a fantastic job in
> keeping the competition rolling for more than ten years. Even if the current
> situation is not resolved there is no technical reason for the site to be
> closed down (though of course it would be wise to modify any parts that refer
> to accepting submissions and so forth).
>
> However this is not the primary point I want to make in this post.
>
> My point I think is that the IRTC can operate in parallel with whatever might
> come up to serve as an outlet for this creative spirit of yours. It is not a
> case of 'replacing' the IRTC, or even having a successor to it. Just for
> there to be something suitable (and preferably fairly automated) that can
> operate as your virtual sounding stage.
>
> I can provide the POVCOMP site source code and web hosting for a new
> competition. Long-time POV user Lance Birch, a professional web designer, is
> willing to supervise and assist with the coding stage. We would need some
> additional help there, as well as at least three trusted people who are
> willing to make a long term commitment to supervising the operation of the
> contest.
>
> Going on, to me, the question is: what would pique your interest and keep it
> long term? A clone of the IRTC? Or something quite different, but with a
> similar flavor? Or something else entirely? Or even a competition that has no
> set flavor - one that changes according to the times?
>
> I would like to suggest one possibility. It would be interesting to be able
> to conduct a series of competitions - of variable length according to
> difficulty - that I would perhaps describe as the "POV-Team's Challenge".
>
> This would involve us coming up with interesting or intriguing ideas for
> renderings - either stills or animations - and challenging you guys to show
> us what y'all can do. It need not be limited to POV-Ray, though of course
> that's our primary focus.
>
> I've no opinion how voting would work. But the winner(s) of each round would
> get a nice virtual medal rendered in 100% recycled electrons and a spiffy
> title of some sort. Possibly I could even tweak the news server web view to
> auto-append an award JPG of some sort to the bottom of all their posts whilst
> they hold the title (i.e. the badge stays there permanently, but only gets
> added to posts they make whilst title-holder. Or something like that.)
>
> Anyhow: what sort of ideas might we pitch? Here's a few that come to mind:
>
> 1. Challenge: make us laugh. No cliches! Be original.
>
> 2. Challenge: using http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/28710584/ as your
> inspiration, come up with something different (no copies!) but that
> invokes a similar sense (of, perhaps, anticipation?*) in viewers minds.
>
> * this word makes me think of the RHPS. Anyone for a Rocky Horror round?
>
> 3. You are provided with a photograph of an equipment room of some sort
> (perhaps a server room). It has plenty of electronic/computer gear/
> wiring in it. You also get measurements of the room and of the larger
> bits of furniture within it, sufficient to re-create a reasonable
> facsimile of it.
>
> Challenge: steampunk it. Photorealism is encouraged.
>
> 4. You are supplied a music track in mp3 format and a data file in text
> format, suitable for parsing by POV-Ray's SDL.
>
> Prior to the start of the competition, a group of you would have created
> a set of SDL routines to manipulate, interpolate, and otherwise use this
> raw data in order to be able to perform the below task (if you're not
> using POV, you will have to find your own way to deal with it).
>
> The data file contains sufficient information that the audio can be
> matched to each of the 3 or 4 instruments used to record it, such that
> an instrument or scene could be animated in time with it.
>
> Challenge: create an animation using the above. It is not required that
> you animate instruments. You may choose to make something trippy or
> cool coupled with the beat. It's up to you. Length should be at least
> 20 seconds, but would preferably be the same as that of the audio file.
>
> To be reasonably feasible I would expect that most of the animation
> would have to be automated - but SDL is one of POV's strengths.
>
> [This challenge was inspired by Animusic*, LOR**, the 'Wizards of
> Winter' video***, and similar items over the years].
>
> * http://www.animusic.com/
> ** http://www.lotsofrobots.com/
> *** http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IK90Ys2LhSo
>
> 5. You are supplied with a set of images that, if put together, form a
> short film (in the region of 300 seconds or so). This movie is shot
> using a real video camera and consists of a defined room or outdoor
> area, the measurements of which are supplied to you, along with the
> details and locations of one or two of the major items of furniture
> present. You are additionally provided with camera tracking data* in
> a form suitable to be used in SDL, plus some macros to deal with it.
>
> The actual details of the video, where it is shot, and what it contains
> (e.g. if there are people present, and if so, what they are doing/saying
> etc) will be determined by reasonable consensus in advance.
>
> Challenge: render something into this scene such that the finished
> result appears seamless. You can choose any part of the supplied data,
> including non-sequential portions, but the result should be at least 20
> seconds long.
>
> [Obviously, http://runevision.com/3d/anims/hologram.asp inspired this].
>
> * If possible this will be high-accuracy date captured from the physical
> camera motion, if we can get access to the equipment required. If not
> then it would be derived.
>
> 4 and 5 would obviously be longer-term projects and may run in parallel with
> shorter ones. Participants in all of these challenges would be encouraged to
> share WIP's, techniques, and macros with others if they so choose. The spirit
> of the challenges to experiment, learn, enjoy, do new things, and most of all
> create neat stuff with POV.
>
> So. Anyone interested?
>
> -- Chris
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Yes I think variable lengths is a good idea, allowing the "bar" to be
"raised" while making simpler contests available and immediate.
Didn't know you were a Rocky Horror fan. I was just invited to
Robbins'/Sarandon's ranch on Sunday. Their son is goalie on the hockey
team my daughter plays on. Tim Robbins LOVES hockey, got the whole team
out to his little natural ice rink so HE could play a game. He plays
full out.
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The reason why I have not made IRTC images after the few attempts
I made quite many years ago is that in order to make any decent image
requires tons of work and talent.
The short code contests, on the other hand, have been fun and I have
been quite succesfull there (two second positions, one top ten position)
because they didn't require all that much work and talent, but more
ingenuity and programming expertise.
It would be nice if the "new IRTC" (of sorts) would also appeal to
the more technical people like me, and not just the talented artists
like the IRTC so far. :)
--
- Warp
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Warp <war### [at] tag povrayorg> wrote:
> The short code contests, on the other hand, have been fun
Btw, the short code contests have been one of the best advertisements
for POV-Ray I have ever seen. For example, check this:
http://www.fazed.net/view/?id=12870&last
--
- Warp
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Fantastic ideas Chris!
Although I have only participated in two IRTC rounds, I am an avid fan
of it. I think all of your ideas are great, and I'd love to support the
effort or help out in any way I could. I probably couldn't be of much
using developing the contest site as I only know HTML editing and
C#/C++, and not much in between in terms of web development. If
graphics are needed, or merely participation in the contests, I can
definitely help.
The ideas for creative competitions are all good ones and I agree that
there should definitely be parallel challenges with different time
lengths. I think it would also be good to have a regularly held contest
with a basic theme and unchanging set of rules, like the IRTC currently
does. That may give the competition some stability and a larger base of
participants. I see the creative, longer duration challenges as
contests that only the most ambitious (or those who are interested in
the unique idea) would undertake. So it will probably have fewer
participants like the IRTC animation rounds currently do.
Yes, let's fire up another competition site based off of POVCOMP with
multiple unique challenges and ones that parallel the IRTC as well. I
don't want the IRTC to go anywhere, and I don't want this to replace the
IRTC, but a little competition always helps move things along too ;)
I'm in!
Skip
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Thanks indeed Chris, for your outlook.
I always wait till other people have given their comments :-) They are often
much better in formulating things than I am. So I join and support the
comments already given here. Warp's comment in particular, I found
interesting as I had not realized that point consciously. It is very
important that a future IRTC, or its continuing, should provide for the
artistic-minded and the technical-minded, in alternance or in parallel
competitions. We all can learn profoundly from both aspects, and I believe
they may even strengthen and complement each other.
I am very much in favour also of the proposals you have given, especially
the use of Challenges, with shorter or longer runtimes and/or complexities.
But again, let me stress the importance of some survival of the classic IRTC
philosophy as a continuity link, or a backbone if you wish, of the
competion(s).
Thomas
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"Chris Cason" <del### [at] deletethistoopovrayorg> wrote in
message news:45c076e4@news.povray.org...
> Having seen the amount of comments regarding the IRTC's current pause,
it's
> clear that there is a real spirit of competition amongst many users who
are
> now looking for a productive outlet for that.
>
> I've been associated with the IRTC since it was the 'RTC' and run by Matt
> Kruse. However irtc.org has always been 'the' IRTC, and honestly I don't
> expect this to change a lot. IMO the admins have done a fantastic job in
> keeping the competition rolling for more than ten years. Even if the
current
> situation is not resolved there is no technical reason for the site to be
> closed down (though of course it would be wise to modify any parts that
refer
> to accepting submissions and so forth).
>
> However this is not the primary point I want to make in this post.
>
> My point I think is that the IRTC can operate in parallel with whatever
might
> come up to serve as an outlet for this creative spirit of yours. It is not
a
> case of 'replacing' the IRTC, or even having a successor to it. Just for
> there to be something suitable (and preferably fairly automated) that can
> operate as your virtual sounding stage.
>
> I can provide the POVCOMP site source code and web hosting for a new
> competition. Long-time POV user Lance Birch, a professional web designer,
is
> willing to supervise and assist with the coding stage. We would need some
> additional help there, as well as at least three trusted people who are
> willing to make a long term commitment to supervising the operation of the
> contest.
>
> Going on, to me, the question is: what would pique your interest and keep
it
> long term? A clone of the IRTC? Or something quite different, but with a
> similar flavor? Or something else entirely? Or even a competition that has
no
> set flavor - one that changes according to the times?
>
> I would like to suggest one possibility. It would be interesting to be abl
e
> to conduct a series of competitions - of variable length according to
> difficulty - that I would perhaps describe as the "POV-Team's Challenge".
>
> This would involve us coming up with interesting or intriguing ideas for
> renderings - either stills or animations - and challenging you guys to
show
> us what y'all can do. It need not be limited to POV-Ray, though of course
> that's our primary focus.
>
> I've no opinion how voting would work. But the winner(s) of each round
would
> get a nice virtual medal rendered in 100% recycled electrons and a spiffy
> title of some sort. Possibly I could even tweak the news server web view
to
> auto-append an award JPG of some sort to the bottom of all their posts
whilst
> they hold the title (i.e. the badge stays there permanently, but only gets
> added to posts they make whilst title-holder. Or something like that.)
>
> Anyhow: what sort of ideas might we pitch? Here's a few that come to mind:
>
> 1. Challenge: make us laugh. No cliches! Be original.
>
> 2. Challenge: using http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/28710584/ as
your
> inspiration, come up with something different (no copies!) but that
> invokes a similar sense (of, perhaps, anticipation?*) in viewers
minds.
>
> * this word makes me think of the RHPS. Anyone for a Rocky Horror
round?
>
> 3. You are provided with a photograph of an equipment room of some sort
> (perhaps a server room). It has plenty of electronic/computer gear/
> wiring in it. You also get measurements of the room and of the larger
> bits of furniture within it, sufficient to re-create a reasonable
> facsimile of it.
>
> Challenge: steampunk it. Photorealism is encouraged.
>
> 4. You are supplied a music track in mp3 format and a data file in text
> format, suitable for parsing by POV-Ray's SDL.
>
> Prior to the start of the competition, a group of you would have
created
> a set of SDL routines to manipulate, interpolate, and otherwise use
this
> raw data in order to be able to perform the below task (if you're not
> using POV, you will have to find your own way to deal with it).
>
> The data file contains sufficient information that the audio can be
> matched to each of the 3 or 4 instruments used to record it, such
that
> an instrument or scene could be animated in time with it.
>
> Challenge: create an animation using the above. It is not required
that
> you animate instruments. You may choose to make something trippy or
> cool coupled with the beat. It's up to you. Length should be at least
> 20 seconds, but would preferably be the same as that of the audio
file.
>
> To be reasonably feasible I would expect that most of the animation
> would have to be automated - but SDL is one of POV's strengths.
>
> [This challenge was inspired by Animusic*, LOR**, the 'Wizards of
> Winter' video***, and similar items over the years].
>
> * http://www.animusic.com/
> ** http://www.lotsofrobots.com/
> *** http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IK90Ys2LhSo
>
> 5. You are supplied with a set of images that, if put together, form a
> short film (in the region of 300 seconds or so). This movie is shot
> using a real video camera and consists of a defined room or outdoor
> area, the measurements of which are supplied to you, along with the
> details and locations of one or two of the major items of furniture
> present. You are additionally provided with camera tracking data* in
> a form suitable to be used in SDL, plus some macros to deal with it.
>
> The actual details of the video, where it is shot, and what it
contains
> (e.g. if there are people present, and if so, what they are
doing/saying
> etc) will be determined by reasonable consensus in advance.
>
> Challenge: render something into this scene such that the finished
> result appears seamless. You can choose any part of the supplied
data,
> including non-sequential portions, but the result should be at least
20
> seconds long.
>
> [Obviously, http://runevision.com/3d/anims/hologram.asp inspired
this].
>
> * If possible this will be high-accuracy date captured from the
physical
> camera motion, if we can get access to the equipment required. If
not
> then it would be derived.
>
> 4 and 5 would obviously be longer-term projects and may run in parallel
with
> shorter ones. Participants in all of these challenges would be encouraged
to
> share WIP's, techniques, and macros with others if they so choose. The
spirit
> of the challenges to experiment, learn, enjoy, do new things, and most of
all
> create neat stuff with POV.
>
> So. Anyone interested?
>
> -- Chris
Chris -
I would be interested. If you would like to contact me we can start some
dialog.
I can tell you who I am, my background, and what I do.
Thank you
Darin
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"Chris Cason" <del### [at] deletethistoopovrayorg> wrote in
message news:45c076e4@news.povray.org...
> Having seen the amount of comments regarding the IRTC's current pause,
it's
> clear that there is a real spirit of competition amongst many users who
are
> now looking for a productive outlet for that.
>
> I've been associated with the IRTC since it was the 'RTC' and run by Matt
> Kruse. However irtc.org has always been 'the' IRTC, and honestly I don't
> expect this to change a lot. IMO the admins have done a fantastic job in
> keeping the competition rolling for more than ten years. Even if the
current
> situation is not resolved there is no technical reason for the site to be
> closed down (though of course it would be wise to modify any parts that
refer
> to accepting submissions and so forth).
>
> However this is not the primary point I want to make in this post.
>
> My point I think is that the IRTC can operate in parallel with whatever
might
> come up to serve as an outlet for this creative spirit of yours. It is not
a
> case of 'replacing' the IRTC, or even having a successor to it. Just for
> there to be something suitable (and preferably fairly automated) that can
> operate as your virtual sounding stage.
>
> I can provide the POVCOMP site source code and web hosting for a new
> competition. Long-time POV user Lance Birch, a professional web designer,
is
> willing to supervise and assist with the coding stage. We would need some
> additional help there, as well as at least three trusted people who are
> willing to make a long term commitment to supervising the operation of the
> contest.
>
> Going on, to me, the question is: what would pique your interest and keep
it
> long term? A clone of the IRTC? Or something quite different, but with a
> similar flavor? Or something else entirely? Or even a competition that has
no
> set flavor - one that changes according to the times?
>
> I would like to suggest one possibility. It would be interesting to be abl
e
> to conduct a series of competitions - of variable length according to
> difficulty - that I would perhaps describe as the "POV-Team's Challenge".
>
> This would involve us coming up with interesting or intriguing ideas for
> renderings - either stills or animations - and challenging you guys to
show
> us what y'all can do. It need not be limited to POV-Ray, though of course
> that's our primary focus.
>
> I've no opinion how voting would work. But the winner(s) of each round
would
> get a nice virtual medal rendered in 100% recycled electrons and a spiffy
> title of some sort. Possibly I could even tweak the news server web view
to
> auto-append an award JPG of some sort to the bottom of all their posts
whilst
> they hold the title (i.e. the badge stays there permanently, but only gets
> added to posts they make whilst title-holder. Or something like that.)
>
> Anyhow: what sort of ideas might we pitch? Here's a few that come to mind:
>
> 1. Challenge: make us laugh. No cliches! Be original.
>
> 2. Challenge: using http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/28710584/ as
your
> inspiration, come up with something different (no copies!) but that
> invokes a similar sense (of, perhaps, anticipation?*) in viewers
minds.
>
> * this word makes me think of the RHPS. Anyone for a Rocky Horror
round?
>
> 3. You are provided with a photograph of an equipment room of some sort
> (perhaps a server room). It has plenty of electronic/computer gear/
> wiring in it. You also get measurements of the room and of the larger
> bits of furniture within it, sufficient to re-create a reasonable
> facsimile of it.
>
> Challenge: steampunk it. Photorealism is encouraged.
>
> 4. You are supplied a music track in mp3 format and a data file in text
> format, suitable for parsing by POV-Ray's SDL.
>
> Prior to the start of the competition, a group of you would have
created
> a set of SDL routines to manipulate, interpolate, and otherwise use
this
> raw data in order to be able to perform the below task (if you're not
> using POV, you will have to find your own way to deal with it).
>
> The data file contains sufficient information that the audio can be
> matched to each of the 3 or 4 instruments used to record it, such
that
> an instrument or scene could be animated in time with it.
>
> Challenge: create an animation using the above. It is not required
that
> you animate instruments. You may choose to make something trippy or
> cool coupled with the beat. It's up to you. Length should be at least
> 20 seconds, but would preferably be the same as that of the audio
file.
>
> To be reasonably feasible I would expect that most of the animation
> would have to be automated - but SDL is one of POV's strengths.
>
> [This challenge was inspired by Animusic*, LOR**, the 'Wizards of
> Winter' video***, and similar items over the years].
>
> * http://www.animusic.com/
> ** http://www.lotsofrobots.com/
> *** http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IK90Ys2LhSo
>
> 5. You are supplied with a set of images that, if put together, form a
> short film (in the region of 300 seconds or so). This movie is shot
> using a real video camera and consists of a defined room or outdoor
> area, the measurements of which are supplied to you, along with the
> details and locations of one or two of the major items of furniture
> present. You are additionally provided with camera tracking data* in
> a form suitable to be used in SDL, plus some macros to deal with it.
>
> The actual details of the video, where it is shot, and what it
contains
> (e.g. if there are people present, and if so, what they are
doing/saying
> etc) will be determined by reasonable consensus in advance.
>
> Challenge: render something into this scene such that the finished
> result appears seamless. You can choose any part of the supplied
data,
> including non-sequential portions, but the result should be at least
20
> seconds long.
>
> [Obviously, http://runevision.com/3d/anims/hologram.asp inspired
this].
>
> * If possible this will be high-accuracy date captured from the
physical
> camera motion, if we can get access to the equipment required. If
not
> then it would be derived.
>
> 4 and 5 would obviously be longer-term projects and may run in parallel
with
> shorter ones. Participants in all of these challenges would be encouraged
to
> share WIP's, techniques, and macros with others if they so choose. The
spirit
> of the challenges to experiment, learn, enjoy, do new things, and most of
all
> create neat stuff with POV.
>
> So. Anyone interested?
>
> -- Chris
Chris -
I would be interested to help out.
If you would like to contact me we can start some dialog.
I can tell you who I am, my background, and my education.
Thank you
Darin
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Jim Charter wrote:
> Didn't know you were a Rocky Horror fan. I was just invited to
haven't watched it for years but was quite keen on back in the day. saw the
stage show as well, maybe half a dozen times over the years. the whole thing
is just good crazy fun:) ... the 'mad scientist in castle' theme is fertile
soil for a computer graphics competition, especially when mixed with a good
dose of humor.
> Robbins'/Sarandon's ranch on Sunday. Their son is goalie on the hockey
neat! ... I've always felt that SS doesn't like to be reminded of her role in
that movie, when she was not so nearly famous :/
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