On Mon, 27 Jul 2020 19:39:39 -0400, Bald Eagle wrote:

> But when someone makes a representation "Hi, we're the POV-Team - we
> write and develop POV-Ray..." _and doesn't expand on that or make any
> representations to the contrary_ (We do this as a hobby, when and if we
> feel like it), then it's a bit harsh to accuse someone of entitlement
> if, out of a completely reasonable state of ignorance, they come into a
> discussion with certain expectations.

I think it's fair to say that those who started the discussion have been 
around long enough to know that it's a volunteer effort.  Indeed, the 
individual who started the entire discussion is one of the most prolific 
posters in these forums.

I think it's reasonable to expect that volunteers do with their time what 
they want to do with their time, and if that means releases are slower 
than one might expect, well, that's the nature of software developed by 
volunteers.  Those who want it to move faster can learn how to code (or 
contribute in other ways).

Further, to state that some individuals (such as myself) should not be 
"wasting time with a discussion" but instead get in there and work on the 
wiki (or whatever) is exactly a sense of "entitlement" - it's that 
entitlement of telling someone who volunteers their time what they should 
do with their free time.  Unless I ask someone for ideas about where I 
might help out, nobody has the right to tell a volunteer (or anyone who's 
officially involved in the project) how to spend their free time.

That is precisely where my objection to the entire thing comes from.  
That expectation that a member of the community who hasn't offered a 
specific way in which they may help (but who, in fairness, has said that 
they were willing to help) can make demands on the time of people who 
volunteer (time, money, resources, whatever) is unreasonable.

And left alone, those "demands" will be repeated.

So let's disabuse anyone of the notion right now that when people 
volunteer to do something, nobody has any right to expect anything from 
those doing the work.  Asking politely for what's happening is one 
thing.  Putting together a laundry list of complaints (and prefacing it 
with "those of a delicate disposition should stop reading now" indicates 
that the author clearly KNEW they were complaining to people they had no 
right to be complaining to).

I have no problem with questions.  I have a problem with rudeness and the 
presumption that one is entitled to anything where a project run by 
volunteers is concerned.  I have a problem with being told that my 
statements "lack veracity".  I have *never* been untruthful in my 
statements here - and I make a point of not "playing games" or being 
untruthful or misleading people.  Not that I expect the perpetrator of 
those statements to correct themselves - they've demonstrated that they 
don't care about correcting the record when they've made an error.

I'm happy to move past that part of the conversation, but I feel it 
important to make it clear what my issue is with this whole thing - as 
someone who has, on occasion, felt motivated to pitch in in what ways I 
am able to (and who is entirely willing to do it again, time permitting).

-- 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and 
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

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