Am 18.01.2014 15:57, schrieb Orchid Win7 v1:
> On 18/01/2014 03:15 AM, clipka wrote:
>> Just came across this refreshingly unbiased documentary:
>
> Although "we requested comment, but they stipulated conditions
> incompatible with normal journalistic practise"... yeah, that sounds
> nicely vague, doesn't it?
>
> I mean, I'm sure what they *actually* said is "we will only talk to you
> if we get to edit out the questions we don't want to answer". But this
> authoritative "incompatible with normal journalistic practise" still
> sounds slightly creepy.

I interpret it as a means to concentrate on the ID vs evolution thing 
and the trial, rather than getting sidetracked on the ID proponents' 
behaviour (except where subject of the trial).


>> Some interesting stuff in there that surprised me myself, re how
>> well-tested Darwin's theory of evolution actually is
>
> Looking at the crumbling remains of some barely recognisable bones is
> one thing. But when you look at DNA sequences and see how utterly
> identical some of them are, and watch how they gradually change as you
> move from species to species, and from continent... it's really quite
> hard to deny that there's something going on here. It's roughly the
> equivalent of *insisting* that the Earth is flat, and that there's no
> evidence to the contrary.

I particularly like the 24 vs 23 chromosome thing in apes vs humans. 
Perfect case for a testable prediction made by evolution.


>> and also why it's so poorly accepted in the US.
>
> This is the thing that gets me. I'm less interested in watching a 2-hour
> documentary about "he said, she said, they said", and more interested in
> "why the hell do 50% of the population ACTUALLY BELIEVE something which
> is obviously ridiculous?"

In case you haven't noticed, the documentary does mention that hadn't 
been taught at US schools until a few decades ago. Which explains a lot.

(According to Wikipedia, in the early 20th century, multiple US states 
passed legislation making it outright /illegal/ to teach evolution at 
publich schools, and in a provoked test case the legislation was ruled 
constitutional; according to the Nova documentary, this caused biology 
textbook publishers to remove evolution from the books entirely. Again 
according to Wikipedia, it was only until the late 1960's that said 
legislation was challegned again, this time with success.)

With that in mind, the utter misunderstanding of the mechanisms of 
evolution among older generations of US residents isn't really that 
surprising at all.


What makes me optimistic about the issue is that in various recent cases 
where US school boards or boards of education had made decisions in 
favor of creationism (aka ID, aka Critical Analysis of Evolution, aka 
whatever label they'll come up with after that), the next elections of 
those bodies have seen proponents of ID lose their seats to outspoken 
opponents of ID.


> Quantum mechanics makes utterly bizarre claims that defy belief... and
> nobody is receiving death threats over teaching quantum mechanics.
> Evolution states the obvious, and the entire country is in uproar... WTF?

QM has the advantage of not being inconsistent with the Bible in any 
ways (to the contrary, it does open up the door again for the 
metaphysical, which had been closed by Newton), so no need to fight a 
holy war over it.

And as for Evolution stating the obvious, that's only true in Europe, 
because we have been exposed to the idea to such an extent that we're 
intimately familiar with the concept.

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