On 12/24/2013 2:08 AM, Warp wrote:
> Lars R. <rou### [at] gmxde> wrote:
>> And to do this, you should calm down your own citizens so they don't
>> disturb your pervert game. And how to do that: Keep them dumb (e.g. by
>> shorting a broad education in your population), tell them again and
>> again your lies that you're fighting a common enemy, until even the last
>> one in your country beleave it without doubt. (And only a few remind
>> that your current "enemy" was bred by yourself some years ago. History
>> repeats itself.)
>
> You do realize that many muslim terrorist attacks have been executed by
> muslims who had lived and studied for years in a western country, some
> of them even having a higher education?
>
> It's more than just education. It is very much about the religion and
> its indocrination.
>
> I think that a very good demonstration of this is that recently a poll
> was performed in the UK, and one of the questions was about homosexuals.
>  From the about 500 muslims that participated in the poll exactly 100%
> opposed homosexuals. Many of these muslims had been born in the UK and
> had studied there all their lives.
>
Some of that can be fear too. Since its not acceptable to Islam, and 
Islam doesn't have a lot of flexibility in such matters, unlike 
Christians, who have sidelined their stricter sects, in favor of more 
"love thy neighbor", than, "follow the rules", there is bound to be a 
certain level of, "If I pick anything other than what Islam says I 
should put down, then someone might find out, and I am going to not just 
be in trouble with Allah, but other people.", going on with those polls.

Someone else was recently talking about the difference they saw between 
what polls showed that Muslims thought in the Netherlands (I think it 
was..), and the reality of dealing with those people every day (and it 
was a Muslim saying this). They stated that the reality was not what the 
polls reflected. That the polls showed the "official" stance, the one 
the members where worried someone might find out they disagreed with, 
which someone more hardline might call them on, and they would get in 
major trouble over, if they where found out, but that the reality was 
that almost no one they knew actually thought that way in reality.

In other words, its a case of, "I will go along with the hate and anger, 
because someone might be watching." Their real attitudes may not in fact 
reflect, at all, what the polls show, but they "think" that the polls do 
show the real view, and none of them are willing to risk sticking their 
head up, and finding out how many people around them agree with them 
about it. They might turn out to be alone, and everyone else against them.

Pretty much the same thing has happened with every religion, if it comes 
to that. Those that want to change risk everything, from their 
perspective, to change things, or.. they turn on each other, to protect 
themselves, because they are sure the ones that disagree outnumber them. 
The real numbers might be 80% not giving a damn, but every single one of 
those 80% is "standing alone", in a sea of people that they are sure 
will condemn them for holding such an ungodly view.

That said, the other factor, specific to Western education, is culture 
shock. The openness of the West runs very contrary to what most of these 
people ever dealt with, and there are only two reactions you can have, 
either abandon faith, or harden it, when confronted with the dissonance 
between such vast successes, and denial of so much of the supposed 
"righteous ideals" of a religion. Either it has be been gained via some 
sort of cheat, or.. your faith has to be wrong, for someone steeped so 
heavily in belief, and, they have already been fed plenty of, "They 
cheated their way to success!", already, in most cases. But, its also 
the "earn a degree, so you can wave it around, while denying the things 
you got a degree in.", thing too, for some. There may be no intention at 
all, from the start, to broaden their views, or learn. It is all about 
learning the trappings of the West, so they can, while completely 
failing to understand the subject, (much like certain creationists 
getting degrees in biology, or geology, then turning that info in to a 
distorted pretzel, for their own invalid arguments), present what, but 
only to them, and other believers, sound like plausible explanations 
about how the West works, and what its been doing.

The sad thing is, some of the crap certain political elements, 
especially in the US, pull, would be enough to make an argument, without 
needing to make crap up. But, that's not how propaganda works. You have 
to keep shoveling new crap on the fire, to keep it going, otherwise they 
might have time to look around and wonder what you are screwing up, 
which has helped make life miserable, even without the West being 
involved in it.

But, the have, at least to some extent, had a few nasty surprises (like 
the Arab Summer), where it turned out people where not as stupid and 
sheep like as they thought they where. But, yeah.. fear, I think, plays 
far more in those poll results, that the actual real opinions, when 
dealing with real people, instead of ideas.

Post a reply to this message