On Sat, 14 Sep 2013 07:50:19 +0100, Stephen wrote:

> On 13/09/2013 5:44 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> On Fri, 13 Sep 2013 06:20:50 +0100, Stephen wrote:
>>
>>> On 13/09/2013 5:43 AM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>>>> But a microchip is just a tad more complex than a combustion engine,
>>>> too.
>>>
>>> Not any more it's not. ;-)
>>>
>>> I used to service my own cars and bikes. Other than check the fluids
>>> all I can do with the engine nowadays is check that it is still there.
>>> :-)
>>
>> Well, some cars have computers in them now, that's true.
> 
> Would you not consider a car's fuel control system a computer?

Depends on the car.  Not if it's just a throttle cable.

>> But the mechanical parts are still basically the same.
> 
> Yes the bits that go roundy round are basically similar as is the
> structural nits. But how do you set up the spark plug timing on your
> car?

I have no idea - but I could ask my father-in-law or brother-in-law.  
IIRC, there's a timing belt/chain in older cars that don't use electronic 
fuel injection.

>> Patrick's analogy is flawed because he's comparing physical items in
>> the boot to data on a hard drive.  The two are so /not/ comparable it's
>> not even funny.
>>
> All analogies break down at some point, eh?
> The real problem is that computers are domestic appliances now. They are
> not just for geeks.
> Here is another analogy or parable, whatever.
> Rule number one when working with electrical equipment is disconnect it
> from the mains before opening it up. Yes?

Not necessarily.  First, unplugging it isn't going to protect you from a 
charged capacitor - any first year electronics student knows that.

> So you can understand in a way why my boss's boss gave me a bollocking
> for working on exposed live equipment. (H&S to the forefront)
> He had no answer to my question "How do I trouble shoot if it is dead?"
> He went away, I powered it up, found the fault and all was well.
> Mixing techie and non-techie is a very hard thing to do.

Well, sure.

> I've run out of steam, now.

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