On 18/11/2012 1:42 AM, Jim Henderson wrote:

>
> The solution to dealing with the "slippery slope" isn't to avoid starting
> something that /may/ head that direction, but to be vigilant about when
> things start sliding.
>

I don’t know about the history of suffrage in America. In Britain we had 
to fight for the right and I am violently opposed to any reduction, even 
if it is in the best interest. Whose best interest, I wonder?

>>> It isn't about voting for the "right" party, though - inasmuch as a
>>> party doesn't put belief and ideology before demonstrable facts.
>>
>> Tell that to the marines. ;-)
>
> ???  I don't understand.
>

Nowadays we generally vote for a party. Gone are the days when an 
individual made any difference. Of course there are exceptions.

>> Bad example, I think. Parties like the Monster Raving Loony Party, here
>> in the UK are for disaffected voters.
>
> Better to include a "none of the above" option on the ballot, I think.
>

Yes that would be better. The only alternative is not to vote at all. 
Then if things go wrong you have no one to blame but yourself.


> That's about our individual behaviour, though - we still expect (or
> "hope" if you wish) that those who have earned a license demonstrated
> some basic competency in driving a motor vehicle.
>

Yes hope. ;-). Only tonight I had to slam the brakes on because the car 
in front of me, on the highway, decided to slow down and let a van that 
was on a slip road out. This is on a 70 mph stretch of road and in the 
dark. Luckily I learned to drive in a car whose brakes were almost non 
existent so I always leave lots of room between the car in front and mine.

> And most of the time, that's a valid expectation to have, otherwise there
> would be far more accidents.
>

Yes.

>>> And we /should/ expect those who vote for those politicians to
>>> understand that that minimally rudimentary understanding aren't denying
>>> the facts of the world around us.
>>
>> Cloud cuckoo land, that one IMO.
>
> I'm not that disillusioned yet. ;)
>

Let me know when you are. :-)

>>> That evolution is real, for example.  That climate change is happening.
>>>   That these things aren't "from the devil" but are in fact the way the
>>> world works, and that we have to actually /deal/ with those issues.
>>>
>> I think that is more of an American viewpoint. In Europe only "Big
>> Business" supporters would even say that.
>
> Sure, but my frame of reference is American politics, where we have
> idiots like Broun, Akin (no more), and Mourdock (again, no more).
>

Fair point.


> See above re: my own frame of reference.  Those in the US who pine for a
> "better, simpler time" are pining for the world of "Leave it to Beaver",
> an idyllic, perfect world where there were no problems, unlike today
> where everything is someone else's fault.  (That view, incidentally, is
> most often put forth by the Republican party, which ironically bills
> itself as the "party of personal responsibility" - but they won't take
> responsibility for anything *they* do, and try to shift the blame for the
> current situation to anyone *but* them).
>

I don't like the Republicans either, they make our Tories seem like good 
guys.

>> The 50's in Glasgow was a bit of a nightmare actually. I remember
>> playing on bomb sites and being told not to play in the green stagnant
>> puddles in the street.
>
> I'd believe that. :)
>

Tell that to the youth of today... ;-)

>> Probably. Take our Mr. Blair (please do and try him for war crimes). He
>> was a posh boy who picked a side to get into politics. Then proceeded to
>> change the Labour party into a mini Tory party so that he could succeed.
>> (Not just my opinion)
>
> I'd take your Blair if you'd take our Bush Jr., Cheney, and Rumsfeld.
>

Bloody ek! NO!
Do I look that soft? ;-)


>
>>> but it does seem that giving something to the country - some form of
>>> sacrifice
>>
>> Does paying your taxes count?
>
> That's a tough one.  On the one hand, yes - but it's more or less a
> passive activity, like paying your phone bill.
>

Only if you don't have a good accountant.

>>> - does make for better/more informed voters.  For example, many who see
>>> combat in the military are unlikely to send others into combat
>>
>> I am gobsmacked with that one. The lions most likely believe that but
>> the donkeys certainly don't. See
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lions_led_by_donkeys
>
> I think it makes a difference if it's the lions making that decision or
> someone who remembers what it was to be a donkey (to extend the metaphor)
> in the heat of battle.
>

The lions or grunts do not get to make the decisions.

> I think there also is a difference in the experience between those two
> groups - military leaders who got there not through combat experience but
> by being in the officer corps are different than those who enlist and
> work their way up through the ranks.
>
In our services it is very hard to go from the ranks to being 
commissioned and even then there is only so far that they can go.

>>> unless it's the last resort.  Those who haven't served don't always
>>> understand what it is they're asking of young soldiers going into
>>> combat.
>>>

Do they care if it is not them or theirs?

>> I don't think that you can know what it could be like. Unless you happen
>> to live an an area where there has been fighting.
>
> Personally, I can't - and I wouldn't want to be in a position of making
> such a decision, because I haven't lived it.
>

Me too. Praise the Lord.

>>> That's not always the case, but those who have been in that situation
>>> are more likely to make a better-informed decision.
>>>
>> Maybe Jon Stewart should be made compulsory viewing over there?
>
> LOL - I do find his perspective to be extremely interesting - and over
> the past couple of years, he's just gotten that much better, taking it to
> a whole other level.  Watched him interview/debate Newt Gingrich a few
> days ago, and it was quite good.
>

I've not seen him for ages but I saw some clips from the Young Turks at 
the weekend.

>> On a lighter not. Did you get the new ISIHAC? It was broadcast on Monday
>
> I hadn't when you wrote this (busy week, hopefully have an interview in
> the next couple of weeks and I've been prepping for it as well as doing
> the contract work), but I have now.  Enjoyed it very much - and
> appreciated the reminder that it was that time again. :)
>

Good luck with it. (Maybe Andrew can give you some tips.) (Feck, that's 
cruel, sorry.)

I've downloaded it but I've not had time to sit down and listen to it. 
Maybe at the weekend.

-- 
Regards
     Stephen

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