On Sat, 09 Jun 2012 19:57:21 +0100, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:

>> I find it to be trivial.
> 
> Wow. OK, that's impressive. Next time I can't find something, I'll know
> who to ask...
> 
> (Oh, wait, I can't do that. Warp will yell at me. :-P )

Earlier today, I was looking for ways to analyse mbox headers.  Took a 
few tries and different combinations, but I found some scripts in about 
15 minutes that gave me a start.

>> One thing that helps tremendously is to just use keywords, not to write
>> a novel as the question.
> 
> Well, sure. But you still gotta pick out the /right/ words. That's what
> makes them KEY words...

And if one set of words doesn't work, you try a different set (see 
above).  It ain't rocket science.

>>> I don't hate living here, it's my favourite place. I hate living WITH
>>> MY MUM, that's for sure. ;-)
>>
>> Your favourite place from a very limited selection, admittedly.
> 
> Like I said, everywhere else I've seen is really old and dilapidated...

Dubai?  Minneapolis?  Sydney?  Switzerland?

Surely you've seen pictures of those places.

>> Yes, but if there are largely small companies, they may typically hire
>> some kid recently out of school (often times before they've been to
>> uni) because they know the kid because he/she fixed their computer
>> once.
> 
> We've got Unisys, we've got the UK headquarters of the OU, we've got a
> brand new building for Network Rail. Actually I know somebody who works
> for them; she reckons that should be my next target...

That's a good start.  Look at the job postings, see if she knows someone 
in the department (or knows someone who knows someone in the department, 
odds are she does if she doesn't herself) for a job that looks 
interesting to you.

>>> Sure. And if a job was in, say, Northampton, that would be fine.
>>> Anything that's within a reasonable commuting distance of where I
>>> live.
>>
>> What distance would you consider?
> 
> Well, commuting time isn't proportional to just /distance/, but I'd at
> least /look at/ anything within about 25 miles or so, I guess.

Well, sure, it isn't proportional, but usually you can't say "show me 
companies that are within 30 minutes of a location at 8 AM and 5 PM" and 
get useful results.  So distance is as good a measure as anything.

25 miles isn't very much.  My last full-time job (and possibly my next 
full-time job) has an office 45 miles away, but I telecommuted most of 
the time.

Something to consider.

>>> Interesting...
>>
>> You don't recall that?
> 
> Vaguely. I still don't get how anybody can /buy/ a house outright, 

Most people don't.  They get a mortgage.  Our 30-year mortgage (IIRC) is 
about $1,300/month.

> but
> renting seems plausible, if you make a lot of money.

Or if you room with someone else.  My stepson and his girlfriend are 
looking at renting with a couple friends of theirs.  Round here, rent's 
not too bad, about $700/mo on average IIRC.

>>> And hey, I've actually /met/ a tiny few of the people on here, so...
>>> (Damn, if only I could remember their names!)
>>
>> Don't worry about remembering names - I never remember names myself,
> 
> Everywhere I go, I can never remember anybody's names, and yet they all
> seem to know exactly who I am. It's weird...

It's not weird.  I've known people who could remember names and faces 
very well.  I've met literally thousands of people at tradeshows, and 
they always remember me, but if they're not wearing a nametag, I usually 
don't remember them unless I've spent time talking to them away from the 
show.

Though often when they tell me their name, I'll remember them - maybe 
it's more the association of names and faces that I have trouble with.

> (Or maybe *I* am weird, which is why everybody knows me.)

You do have some /interesting/ traits that make you memorable.  Not in a 
bad way, either.

>> It's a question of scale.  And you don't be someone worth mentioning,
>> you have to pursue it.  Most HR professionals say that they're not
>> interested in hiring someone who doesn't show initiative.  You don't
>> say to an HR person "if you see something that looks like a good fit,
>> get in touch with me".
> 
> I can't imagine any way of "showing initiative".

Find a job that looks interesting, contact someone you know at the 
company and say "Hey, I saw this job at your company, and I'm interested 
in it".  If you've previously interviewed there, contact the person you 
interviewed with and say "I know this other position didn't work out, but 
I found another one that looks like a better fit, could you give me a 
hand with it?" - especially if you did a screening interview with the HR 
department in the past.

Persistence pays off.

Sending a CV and saying "contact me if there's a good fit" - not showing 
initiative.  Showing that you know something about the company, finding a 
position, and then getting hold of someone you've talked to before there 
and saying "hey, this is something I'm interested in, and I'd be a good 
fit for it and here's why" (and then framing 'why' in terms of what they 
do - show that you know what they do) - that is a good thing.

>>> So in the interview, they always seem to ask you something along the
>>> lines of "what excites you about our company?" or "why did you choose
>>> us?" or something similar.
>>
>> Yep.  So you have to find something to be excited about - and there has
>> to be something that interests you beyond the paycheck, or there's
>> little reason for you to stay.  Hiring people is expensive, so they
>> want to hire people who have a peripheral interest.
> 
> I have a hard time imagining somebody being interested in a company for
> any reason other than the money.

Wouldn't it be fun, for example, if you found a company that worked on/
with Haskell?  Sure, the money is an important thing, but working on 
something you find interesting - that's a reason to be interested in a 
particular organisation.

>>> Why did I pick this company? The honest truth is obviously "this is
>>> all I could find".
>>
>> m-/
>>
>> Telling them "nobody else will hire me" makes them think "yeah, so
>> there must be a reason for that so we'll just back away slowly".
> 
> In my case, it's more like "I couldn't find anybody else to ask". It's
> not as if job openings grow on trees...

You just said unemployment is quite low where you are.  As population 
grows, if unemployment stays the same or drops, then jobs are in fact 
growing.

>> You have to find something about what they do that piques your
>> interest.
> 
> Sounds infeasible to me.

Maybe you need to extend your search beyond 25 miles from where you are, 
and consider that moving where you are might well be beneficial.

>> You don't have to pretend about it.
> 
> Oh really?

Really.  I took on teaching because I was interested in helping people 
learn how to use the product.  I'd never done formal instruction before 
(presented at conferences a few times, but that's different from 
constructing and delivering a 3-day classroom experience with hands-on 
labs).

>> The point is that while yeah - it's a job and you need the money -
>> there should be something about the job or the company that makes you
>> /want/ to get up and go to work in the morning.
> 
> I'm astonished. I never thought I'd meet somebody who ACTUALLY GETS
> EXCITED about doing a job...

A fair number of people get excited about doing a job.  Many people 
derive meaning in their lives based on the job they do, and it helps 
define who they are.

For people who fall into that category, not being excited about the job 
is like not being alive.

>> Ads are primarily Google's "product" as well.
> 
> I've been wondering about that. I mean, it's no secret that Google is
> hugely successful. The secret is WHO THE HELL PAYS THEM MONEY?! They
> don't SELL anything!

Subscribers to Google Docs - there is a business edition.  Ads.  I'm sure 
Darren could tell you all sorts of things they sell.

> (People say "they sell advertising", but have YOU ever seen any of these
> adverts that they purportedly sell?)

Sure, I have.  AdWords is all over the 'net.

Jim

Post a reply to this message