On Sat, 19 May 2012 10:56:09 +0100, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:

>>> I did say I wasn't much good in the first place. ;-)
>>
>> No, you lamented how after years of practice, you weren't any good.  2
>> years starting at age 9 doesn't constitute "years of practice". :P
> 
> When did I say that?

Well, I'd give a cite, but it's been a couple of years ago, and it may 
well just be that that was the impression you gave rather than saying it 
explicitly.

> The violin is a very hard instrument to play. I /know/ I was never that
> great at it, and I didn't expect to be. Something this hard takes a
> lifetime to master.

Ironically, the reason I started was because I saw a demonstration and 
said "that looks easy, I could do that", and I did.  And I was actually 
pretty good at it, too (hence the trip to the USSR to perform with the 
orchestra I was in).

>> Again, not something you learn at age 9.  I think my lessons started
>> including vibrato in middle school.
>>
>> At age 9, it's "absurdly difficult" because you don't generally have
>> the necessary motor control at that age.
> 
> It looks pretty difficult for an adult to do too. Not that I've actually
> tried...

This is another of those "it's not something you can pick up instantly" 
things.  It's actually pretty easy once you learn how.

>>> I did find some page on the Internet which shows you how to hold the
>>> violin itself and the bow. And then it says "already, bring on the
>>> Paganini!" As if anybody is going to be able to play Paganini after
>>> reading a few web pages...
>>
>> And if you believe that .... well, I cannot stop you from believing
>> such nonsense.
> 
> Clearly my sarcasm is not biting enough. :-P

Perhaps a variant of Poe's Law is in play here. :)

>> Given what you've said about your financial situation, it's not likely
>> you'll be able to afford a violin that has good tonal qualities.
> 
>> A violin that doesn't sound like crap costs a little bit of money.
> 
> I'm fairly sure even a genuine Stradivarius would sound awful in my
> hands. But hey, it's not like I'm intending to join a concert orchestra.
> If I can get to the point where I can play a tune and have it sound
> reasonable, that'll do for me.

There is certainly technique you'll need to acquire.  Figuring out the 
right amount of pressure and the corresponding speed to draw the bow so 
it doesn't sound scratchy, making sure you're moving the bow parallel to 
the bridge (and between the bridge and end of the fingerboard, with a few 
exceptions).  Hitting the right notes, of course - as a fretless 
instrument, it takes practice to build the muscle memory to consistently 
hit notes in tune.

The way I was taught was to put a little strip of tape in the normal 
positions for each finger.

>>> Even when I was being taught by professionals, I always hated the
>>> E-string. That thing is /basically/ a piece of cheese wire. That's
>>> what it is, you're pressing a cheese wire into your fingertips.
>>> Ouch!>_<
>>
>> You get used to it after a while.  But I'd argue that you weren't
>> "taught by professionals" if you didn't learn how to tune it.
> 
> In fairness, I'd imagine they do teach you that a little later on. It's
> just that our music teacher retired, and then music lessons vanished off
> the school timetable. (All the instruments vanished too. Today, that
> school's music lessons consist of kids aimlessly bashing electronic
> keyboards while the teacher tries to make 'em pay attention...)

Sounds like you could've been going to an American school with that 
progression.  ;)

>> That's the spirit - as much as what I've said above here is somewhat
>> out of frustration - you *shouldn't* care what my opinion is.  If
>> you're having fun doing it, and aren't expecting a miracle in terms of
>> learning speed, have fun with it.
> 
> I intend to. So far, I've only found one person who seems excited by
> this, which is a little disappointing. But hey, we'll see how it goes...

So don't get me wrong, I'm excited for you as well - it's hard to express 
that especially when sometimes you say things that are completely 
baffling. ;)  But just like when you figured out that you enjoy dancing, 
I'm happy that you've found something else that you can enjoy doing.  :)

>>> PS. Ever tried playing flute? That's pretty hard too.
>>
>> I haven't, but my stepson did for a while, and my wife has a friend who
>> is now (AFAIK) playing with the New York Philharmonic.  From what I
>> understand, playing flute is like blowing over the top of a soda bottle
>> -
>> that's how you get sound out of it.
> 
> If you just blow into it, nothing happens. It seems it works on the same
> principle as a pipe organ; you direct a narrow stream of air against a
> hard edge. In a pipe organ (or a recorder), you've got a vent to do that
> for you. With a flute, you have to do this weird contortion of your face
> where you blow downwards, and you need to hit the edge of the air hole.
> It's actually quite easy once you get the knack...

Yeah, almost exactly like making a soda bottle whistle.

> (Making it /sound good/ is probably a whole other matter. But I've only
> got a cheap little bamboo flute. It sounds pleasant enough.)
> 
>> My brother played/plays oboe.  And keyboards, but he really loves
>> playing the oboe.  If you think flute is hard, you should try a
>> double-reed instrument.  I tried making noise just with the reed once,
>> and it was extremely difficult.
> 
> Ah, the oboe. Another expressive instrument. Yeah, I bet that's hard...

The thing with Steve playing the oboe was he decided he wanted to play it 
at a very young age.  Too young, in fact - it requires a fair amount of 
strength in the embouchure, and he wanted to start when he was 8 or 9 
years old (2nd or 3rd grade), before his embouchure was developed enough 
to handle the physical forces involved.

So he started with piano, but he started on oboe in 4th grade (5th is 
when band instruments are usually started in the schools I went to), and 
he got very good at it very quickly.  So quickly, in fact, that by the 
time he was in the 6th grade (which was the last grade in elementary 
school at the time), he was completely bored with the music they were 
playing.

He had private lessons from an oboist in the Minnesota Orchestra, so that 
kept him challenged.

Jim

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