On Fri, 18 May 2012 23:27:38 +0100, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:

>>> I played for about 2 years, total. And that was 20 years ago...
>>
>> See, the impression you gave about this previously was that you had
>> many years' experience playing.  2 years isn't enough to get a lot of
>> expertise in playing an instrument.  You said you sucked at it.  You
>> didn't say that you only played for 2 years when you were<  11 years
>> old.
>>
>> That makes a difference.
> 
> I did say I wasn't much good in the first place. ;-)

No, you lamented how after years of practice, you weren't any good.  2 
years starting at age 9 doesn't constitute "years of practice". :P

> As you presumably know, the characteristic sound of the violin comes
> from playing with vibrato - which is absurdly difficult. They don't
> teach you how to do that until you're already a really good player.

Again, not something you learn at age 9.  I think my lessons started 
including vibrato in middle school.

At age 9, it's "absurdly difficult" because you don't generally have the 
necessary motor control at that age.

>> If it were /easy/, then everyone could play like Itzhak Perlman.
> 
> Uh... who?

World famous violinist from Israel, paralyzed from the waist down due to 
polio.  Did the solo work in Schindler's List, among other things.

Plays a Stradivarius and can really make it sing.

Wait a sec.  I forgot who I'm talking to. <facepalm>

> I did find some page on the Internet which shows you how to hold the
> violin itself and the bow. And then it says "already, bring on the
> Paganini!" As if anybody is going to be able to play Paganini after
> reading a few web pages...

And if you believe that .... well, I cannot stop you from believing such 
nonsense.

> What I'm saying is, you can pick up a guitar and make a half-decent
> sound with it in about ten minutes. Because a guitar is not a
> particularly sensitive instrument. A violin is much, much harder.
> Because it's very, very sensitive. That means you can do much more with
> it, but also that it takes far more effort.

It's not "very, very sensitive", but the nature of it being bowed means 
that it's not as simple to play as plucking a string.  If you play 
pizzicato on a violin and hold it like a guitar, you can actually get 
sound out of it (in fact, that's how I actually started playing, that was 
how they taught students where I went to school).

> Having just said all that, I haven't played a violin for 20 years. I
> wasn't that good in the first place. 

You had *2 bloody years* of instruction!!!!!  You *wouldn't* be very good 
at it in the first place with only 2 years of instruction, especially if 
your teacher was as crap as it sounds.

As much as you might like to believe it, there's absolutely NO WAY you're 
going to be playing Paganini after 2 years of instruction.  Not on the 
violin, not on the piano, not on the guitar.

> But I have now reached the point
> where, provided I stick to the key of D major, I can play simple
> melodies which sound more or less in tune, with a tone that isn't
> horrifyingly awful. When you consider how long it took to get that good
> the /first/ time around, that's not bad...
> 
>>> So far, I basically haven't used the E-string at all. The pressure of
>>> the bow on the string seems to be enough to put it out of tune. And as
>>> soon as I put a finger on it, it becomes almost completely mute.
>>
>> That tells me that the pegs are definitely not right for the peg holes,
>> and you should get someone to take a look at it.
> 
> It strikes me that this violin was probably on sale in a charity shop
> /for a reason/. ;-)

Very likely.  But it sounds repairable.

> I'm hoping to pay a visit to the local music shop tomorrow. (Like all
> shops, they deliberately open an hour after I leave for work, and shut
> an hour before I get home again.) I'll get them to take a look at it and
> see what they say. I might also be able to pick up a new violin and see
> if there's any noticeable difference in sound quality.

Given what you've said about your financial situation, it's not likely 
you'll be able to afford a violin that has good tonal qualities.  Back in 
the 80's when I started playing, when I was big enough for a full-size 
violin, my parents bought one.  It cost about $1500, but was on sale.

The bow that I have (which needs to be rehaired) was about $300 as I 
recall.

A violin that doesn't sound like crap costs a little bit of money.  
Mine's not a Stradivarius (it's a copy of a Guenari, though - according 
to the label - and Guenari studied under the same maker IIRC as 
Stradivarius did).

>>> Also, I have bruised fingertips now. :-/
>>
>> Yep, that'll happen until you get callouses on your fingertips.  That's
>> part of the reason I haven't played in several years - I don't have
>> those callouses, but I have the dexterity, and it does hurt to play. 
>> Feels like I'm cutting into my fingertips with a dull knife.
> 
> Even when I was being taught by professionals, I always hated the
> E-string. That thing is /basically/ a piece of cheese wire. That's what
> it is, you're pressing a cheese wire into your fingertips. Ouch! >_<

You get used to it after a while.  But I'd argue that you weren't "taught 
by professionals" if you didn't learn how to tune it.

> I'm really excited to have a violin in my life again. But everybody else
> I've told about it has said "urgh, I *hate* violin!" Ho hum. Forever
> unappreciated, eh? It would be nice to be able to play well, but
> realistically I doubt I have the time or money to make that a reality.
> So I'm just going to see how far I can get with it. We'll see what
> happens after that.

That's the spirit - as much as what I've said above here is somewhat out 
of frustration - you *shouldn't* care what my opinion is.  If you're 
having fun doing it, and aren't expecting a miracle in terms of learning 
speed, have fun with it.

> PS. Ever tried playing flute? That's pretty hard too. When I was first
> given one, it took the entire household about a month to collectively
> figure out how to get a single note out of it... ;-)

I haven't, but my stepson did for a while, and my wife has a friend who 
is now (AFAIK) playing with the New York Philharmonic.  From what I 
understand, playing flute is like blowing over the top of a soda bottle - 
that's how you get sound out of it.

My brother played/plays oboe.  And keyboards, but he really loves playing 
the oboe.  If you think flute is hard, you should try a double-reed 
instrument.  I tried making noise just with the reed once, and it was 
extremely difficult.

Jim

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