On 10/15/2011 5:39 AM, Warp wrote:
>    Not living in the US, only seeing what's happening there from far away,
> my notion may very well be really biased and limited, but I get the strong
> impression that many Americans seem to live in some kind of social bubble
> where they subconsciously think that they are the only people in the world
> (or at least the only people with a modern western culture and society).
> In other words, they have an extremely US-centric view of the world.
>
I think the problem is more that certain "monied" people, a small number 
of Rupert Murdock like news agencies, and one entire political party (or 
at least the current leadership, and an unfortunate number of others 
that thought they sounded like a great idea), are literally unhinged, in 
several ways, not the least being a complete inability to accept, or 
acknowledge, that the US doesn't have all the answers, to every problem.

>    Three examples:
>
>
>    1) Many critics of the "occupy Wall Street" movement accuse the protesters
> of opposing capitalism.
>
>    I don't understand this accusation at all. It seems to imply that the only
> possible form of capitalism is the one which is enacted in the US, where
> the government is largely lobbied by large corporations, where these
> corporations (in large part thanks to this lobbying) can get away with
> screwing up people, where basically everything is privatized (including
> things like the healthcare system), where banks and other corporations whose
> only goal is to make money with money (and which do not produce anything)
> deliberately screwing up the economy by shady (and sometimes outright illegal)
> tactics and for their own benefit at the cost of others is normal, and where
> individuals have basically no rights over big corporations.
>
>    This kind of mentality completely ignores the fact that the US is not the
> only capitalist country in the world. It might be unique in its particular
> form of capitalism, but it's certainly not the only capitalist country.
> Most other western countries have a form of capitalism that is much more
> controlled by the government, where large corporations are not free to do
> whatever they want, and it works just ok.
>
>    I get the feeling that these people seem to think, at some level, that
> the US is the only "true" capitalist country in the world, and the rest is
> just socialist countries or banana republics, and that eroding anything in
> the current US capitalist system is going towards socialism and communism.
>
>
The majority of actual people are a) part of this movement, or b) 
sympathetic of it, its purely the idiots in "some" of the news, and the 
party they shill for, which think this way.

>    2) If you do a bit of searching, you will find tons of conspiracy theories
> about how the FDA is shutting down, hiding and attacking alternative cures
> for all kinds of diseases. Miracle cures for cancer seem to be the most
> popular ones. You can find lengthy "documentaries" about this very subject.
>
>    These conspiracy theories are *so* US-centric that it gives me nausea.
> Apparently to these people the FDA either controls the entire world, or
> alternatively the US is the only country in the world where any kind of
> medical research is performed (under the tight grip of the FDA, of course).
>
>    I don't remember any of these conspiracy theories trying to explain how
> it's possible that there exists a miracle cure for cancer (or whatever),
> yet no other country has started using it. Countries that have absolutely
> nothing to do with the US and the FDA.
>
Yeah, we have a fine tradition of this kind of nutso BS in the US. As 
someone put it, "when your kooks are on the sideline, and 'sometimes' 
figure out a good idea, by accident, its beneficial to the country. 
However, when your kooks end up center stage, get their own TV shows, or 
run for congress, you have a problem." The first "celebrity" kook was 
the Atlantis guy, only he started out backwards, we *was* in congress 
(or maybe the senate, I don't remember at the moment), and is one of the 
only people ever thrown out, after he went off and ranted, quite 
insanely, against his own friend, apparently, during a session, in front 
of everyone. He then made a fairly unexciting career as a failed 
politician, and crank, before cobbling together a load of complete 
nonsense, based on a few lines in a Greek poem. Now, you can't, 
literally, find one single reference too, nut case looking for, or claim 
about, the lost city of Atlantis, which isn't **directly** tied to his 
original, idiotic, book. Being that, before him, no one even dared 
suggest that there *was* something to look for, this is hardly surprising.

But, now we do it backwards here in the US. We let someone spend years 
as a complete nutcase, then give him fame, then, if they don't seriously 
screw up, elect them.
>
>    3) Many Christians in the US (at least in some parts of it) have
> this conviction that atheism leads to complete immorality, anarchy,
> every-man-for-himself attitudes, violence, crime and complete chaos.
> This is one of the reasons why they vilify and discriminate against
> atheists so strongly (way more than believers in other religions). They
> are seen as absolutely immoral monsters and beasts who would immediately
> go in a violent crime rampage if it were not for all the Christians keeping
> law and order.
>
>    These people seem to be completely oblivious to the fact that there
> are many countries where Christianity is not predominant. Moreover, there
> are countries where *no* religion is predominant. For example in the northern
> European countries something like 85% of people are secular, many of them
> outspoken atheists. Similar numbers are true for most of Europe. While in
> the US the atheist is the odd-man-out, the exception to the rule, the
> reverse is true here.
>
>    Yet these countries have not fallen into chaos and anarchy, their societies
> crumbling under the lack of morality, order and law. In fact, there are
> statistically *less* crime in most European countries than there is in
> the US (regardless of the type of crime). Yet these American Christians
> seem either completely unaware of this, don't want to think about it,
> or actively ignore or deny it.
>

This is simple. The logic is that a) they are going to hell, just look 
at how much "worse" their economies are, b) just look at all these ( 
entirely made up) examples of bad laws, and evil things happening in 
them, c) denial that anything good is happening in those places, and d) 
an even **bigger** total, and complete, denial that Christians are not 
the majority religion in the world, or that any place with a lot of 
churches can "possibly" be non-religious.

Between the denialism, the outright lies, and the practical total 
disinterest in the US media to show, admit to, or mention, except in a 
negative context, any "secularism" any place else, its hardly a surprise 
that the majority of the population imagines Europe as a vast empire of 
Christian idealism, with a few horrible, probably socialist, imperial, 
left wing, fascist, atheist, communists, running around trying to 
destroy it. And, well.. If that isn't the case, then, just look how much 
"better" the news tells us we are, compared to everyone else, so we damn 
well better not try any of that anti-corporatism, anti-religious, 
socialist, bullshit here. It might, cause a recession, or something!

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