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On Sat, 08 Oct 2011 16:10:16 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>> Try installing Notepad on Windows without installing Windows
>> Networking.
>>
>> Oh, you can't do that. Why? Because Windows Networking is an
>> integrated component of the operating system.
>>
>> Guess what - it's also an integrated component of GNOME, because
>> interoperability matters.
>
> The irony is, you actually /can/ uninstall Windows networking (and even
> the TCP/IP protocol). And Notepad still works. :-P
Not if you try to save to a networked drive.
> Plus, installing Windows isn't a 4GB download. Honestly, I can remember
> a time when all the Linux fanboys used to shout about how much leaner
> Linux is than Windows. Today a default install of most distros either
> involves DVDs or multi-GB downloads. It installs everything *and* the
> kitchen sink, and when I want to use a different text editor it *still*
> wants to download another couple of GB of data. ENOUGH ALREADY! >_<
Installing Windows + applications is a lot more than 4 GB. With the
caching done on my Win7 VM, it sure seems to have downloaded 4+ GB of
updates since installed, too.
>>> Me and my dad tried updating OpenSUSE one time. After several days of
>>> hell, we decided never to attempt this ever again.
>>
>> It's a shame you didn't come over to the forums and ask for some help.
>
> Wouldn't that require me to figure out how to display IPv6 so that
> Firefox works again?
No.
You have a Windows machine, do you not? It's not uncommon for people to
use one OS to ask questions about another, especially when they're having
networking issues.
>>> Uh, yeah. Updating Windows in-place isn't something I'd recommend
>>> *either*...
>>
>> I generally wouldn't recommend it for any OS, but it can be a bit
>> easier with Linux if your /home partition is separate from the rest of
>> the system. Worst case, you do a fresh install of the root partition
>> and leave the /home data alone.
>
> Same works for any OS.
True enough.
>>>> RPM does a pretty good job of dependency management
>>>
>>> Well, some distros use RPM, some use .deb, some use something else
>>> entirely. I've yet to see a package manager where it's entirely clear
>>> what the heck is going on, or why selecting one small application
>>> requires a 2GB download.
>>
>> Well, again, it comes down to understanding the interdependencies,
>> rather than throwing your hands up in the air and saying "it's too
>> damned complex for anyone to understand."
>
> How about spending several years working with Linux and still not being
> able to get it to work right. Does that count? :-P
>
>>>> but you have to take care not to add too many repositories
>>>
>>> I don't even know how to do that.
>>
>> In openSUSE: sudo yast2 repositories
>
> OK. But the fact that I don't know how to do it demonstrates fairly
> conclusively that that isn't the problem I had.
Your problem is a lack of knowledge. That can be corrected. If you go
into using Linux thinking it's going to be exactly like Windows, you're
doomed to fail before you even boot the machine.
Newsflash: Linux is NOT Windows. It doesn't work like Windows. It
doesn't feel like Windows. Why? BECAUSE IT ISN'T FREAKING WINDOWS!!!
>>> Last time I tried this with VMware tools, it went something like this:
>>> - Where are the kernel headers?
>>> - No, the headers for the *running* kernel? - OK, now install gcc
>>> please.
>>> - No, the version of gcc that the kernel was compiled with. At that
>>> point, I discovered that the version of gcc in question isn't
>>> available for this release of Ubuntu. WTF?
>>
>> I can't speak to Ubuntu. openSUSE has a pretty strict "no kernel
>> upgrades" policy within a particular version. (That doesn't mean "no
>> updates" - security updates are backported by the openSUSE kernel team,
>> and important enhancements frequently are as well AFAIK). That means
>> it's incredibly rare to have to deal with something like that with
>> VMware once it's working.
>
> I think I tried it with Debian and Fedora as well. Can't remember if I
> tried OpenSUSE.
>
> This sort of thing tends to be typical of /any/ attempt to install
> something that isn't packaged. And even if the website has an RPM or a
> .deb, usually that just flips the package manager out because all the
> dependencies are wrong...
Which is why having a community to ask questions of (including 'is there
a pre-built package for 'x'', surprisingly enough) is a good thing.
>> It's a shame you don't ask questions in the Linux forums related to the
>> distribution you use. Those issues are often easily resolved, and
>> novices can get help instead of just bitching "this damned stuff never
>> works right!"
>
> Yes, because I want to sign up to /yet another/ online forum just to
> make one piece of software install cleanly...
If you're using Fedora, go to fedoraforums. If you're using Ubuntu, go
to ubuntuforums. If you use openSUSE, go to the openSUSE forums.
Chances are you're not going to get sent to a forum for Photivo (for
example), unless you're having a problem specific to Photivo. Just like
with Windows apps, you're not going to go to the Microsoft forums to ask
a question about issues installing Peachtree Accounting.
> As I say, I generally just stick to Windows. When you install stuff, it
> just works.
>
> (Not that I'm completely unsympathetic, you understand. "Linux" is one
> hell of a big moving target to try to hit...)
>
> I love how I'm the biggest Microsoft-hater ever, and I've ended up
> defending Windows. When Linux came out, I really thought it was going to
> be the answer. Turns out it just brought a different set of problems...
Software isn't perfect. No matter which platform it is, it isn't going
to be perfect. You have to be willing to take some time to learn how the
system works, rather than just try it and lament "it's hard".
Linux is not hard. It requires some dedication to learn in order to use
it effectively, just as Windows does. If you doubt that, look at any
user on your network who hasn't taken the time to figure out how to use
Windows effectively.
Everyone's a new user at least once.
Jim
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