On 9/20/2011 16:54, Patrick Elliott wrote:
> On 9/19/2011 6:11 PM, Darren New wrote:
>>> the thing that alters the state.
>>
>> And in the case of the quantum delayed choice eraser, what is "the
>> thing" that alters "the state"?
>>
> If what you are doing is "undoing" the stat change, then its still the same
> thing as would have changed the state, uh.. sort of.. Yeah, confusing, but
> its not quite so big of a problem as it first appears. Something is still
> "effecting" the state, even if the "effect" is to prevent a transition into
> one that is collapsed.

Well, yes, but that's just explaining the results of the experiment without 
actually shedding any additional light on why it behaves that way.


>>> b) they opted for the misleading term "observer", when
>>> talking about how the state collapses.
>>
>> That's the problem. Nobody could come up with a reason that the state
>> would collapse at all. I'm not sure even now it's a solved problem.
>>
> I tend to think that they are either confusing themselves. There is no
> reason it wouldn't.

Oh? So you've solved the problem? Do tell, why does the quantum state 
collapse instead of merely becoming entangled with whatever it interacts with?

> But, we think about things with language. So, if you are
> using the wrong bloody language, it creates all sorts of errors in thinking.

I'm pretty sure the people who ague about this for real aren't using prose 
to do so.

> In principle, as long as a particle is isolated from influences that "can"
> collapse the state, it won't.

Why does a particle bouncing off a mirror not collapse the state? Certainly 
there's interaction there. Indeed, where in the wave equations is the 
expression for the collapse of the state? That's really pretty much what the 
question boils down to.

> Personally, I consider the confusion over what happens if you don't "see" it
> happen to be complete nonsense,

Except you get different experimental results depending on whether you see 
it or not. That indeed is the entire point.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   How come I never get only one kudo?

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