On Mon, 25 Apr 2011 15:48:36 -0700, Darren New wrote:

> On 4/25/2011 14:10, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> On Mon, 25 Apr 2011 14:09:12 -0700, Darren New wrote:
>>
>>> On 4/25/2011 10:35, Jim Henderson wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 25 Apr 2011 10:31:09 -0700, Darren New wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> If it doesn't stop being
>>>>> faith just because you're right, it doesn't stop being belief just
>>>>> because you have justification for the belief.
>>>>
>>>> But it does stop being faith when you have knowledge that you are
>>>> correct.  Faith is by definition trusting rather than knowing.
>>>
>>> Right. Just like you can have faith in something that turns out to be
>>> true, you can have a belief in something of which you are certain.
>>
>> But it's not necessary - because you are certain, right?
> 
> Certainty is a measure of the strength of your belief. Your belief
> doesn't stop being a belief when you're certain, any more than a fact
> stops being true when you obtain evidence to support it.
> 
> I believe the sun is up *because* I have evidence. If I didn't have
> evidence (or I had evidence to the contrary) I would believe the sun is
> up because I have faith. I might have that faith and belief that the sun
> is up even if I was in a closed room, and regardless of whether the sun
> actually was above my horizon or not.
> 
> Belief and faith describe mental states. Those descriptions don't speak
> about the truth of the belief. The difference between belief and faith
> is not whether it's correct, but whether there's evidence available to
> the one doing the believing to support of contradict the belief or
> faith.

Now I'm going to have to think about this one a bit. :)

Jim

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