On Sat, 23 Apr 2011 23:45:04 +0200, andrel wrote:

>> I think there's a fundamental difference, if you're like most of the
>> atheists I know - you're willing to be convinced given sufficient
>> evidence.
> 
> No, I am not, that is the point. There being a God is to such an extend
> contradictory to being me, that I will never accept any evidence(, hence
> my reference to that book of my father). I think you will find that true
> for other atheists as well.

That is different - so you're saying that if someone presented rational 
evidence for a God, you wouldn't accept it?  I find that *highly* unusual.

>> But such evidence doesn't exist.
>>
>> Compare the creationists view - they're not willing to be convinced
>> there is no creator.  The only thing that works for them is if the
>> question of whether or not their is a creator is taken off the table.
> 
> I don't think that there is too much difference in attitude between them
> and me. Other than that I understand the world and they don't. So I am
> defending the truth and they a fallacy.

Then you're arguably just as religious as they are.  Otherwise, you'd 
have to be open to a rational explanation or evidence for God.  For me, I 
don't see it today, but if credible evidence were presented, I wouldn't 
just look away from it and say "no, that cannot be".  That doesn't mean 
I'd accept it unchallenged, either, though.

>>> It only becomes a problem when they try to prevent teaching real
>>> science and research.
>>
>> I disagree, it becomes a problem because they teach kids (who are still
>> developing the ability to think rationally) that there is no value in
>> thinking rationally about a problem - that you can just 'believe your
>> way' through a situation.
> 
> That is sort of what I meant too.

Then on that we agree. :)

>> That undermines not only teaching real science, but the ability for
>> students to think about problems in a rational way.
> 
> Are Americans worse programmers than Japanese?

I have no data to support one being better than the other.  Do you?

Jim

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