On 15-8-2011 17:53, Warp wrote:
> andrel<byt### [at] gmailcom>  wrote:
>> The interesting thing is that this is sort of what, at least in the
>> netherlands, populist (or conservative/right wing, whichever name you
>> prefer, although all are wrong) say the left wing people are saying.
>> Funny thing is that by and large this is not true. Sure, you can always
>> find some columnist that says something in an exaggerated way and claim
>> that is what everybody says, but actually there is no evidence of it to
>> be true in general.
>
>    It's certainly possible that when one follows the heated debate between
> devoted left-wing multiculturalists and right-wing opponents one easily
> gets the idea that the multiculturalists do nothing more than preach all
> day about the subject, always spouting the most ridiculous things, while
> in reality it might be significantly less prominent.
>
>    However, sometimes the multiculturalists go to egregious extremes to
> paint the local culture as racist and propense to hate crimes.
>

[snipped examples]

I don't doubt these examples exist, and indeed I know a couple myself. 
Yet there are also examples of fabricated stories and rushing to 
conclusions by right wing politicians and columnists. I don't deny your 
right to be angry about things, just pointing out that you have to be 
very careful to avoid selective anger. You are more likely to 
disseminate a story where left wing people (say) make mistakes to your 
friends then mistakes by the other side. They will be similarly biased 
in what the send you and when the group is large enough, for all of you 
the counter examples will be drowned out completely by those that are in 
favour of what you already think. It is a general group bonding thing 
that has always worked this way. The new element might be that google 
and facebook are actively promoting such bonding. That is not what it is 
meant to do, but it may be the effect.

>> An example is that after the killings in Norway our main populist
>> (wilders) started complaining that all these left wing people were
>> attacking him because the guy referred a few times in his papers to him.
>
>    I have to admit that the Finnish press acted surprisingly neutrally in
> this case and didn't take it as an opportunity to launch a full force
> attack against the "populists". (Or at least I haven't seen any such
> thing.)

I don't think it is surprising. ;)

>> Short short version: you can not blame someone for not solving an
>> unsolvable problem.
>
>    Perhaps the problem is unsolvable, but I'm sure that it can be alleviated
> somewhat. However, the way to alleviate is not to ignore the existence of
> the problem.

That sort of presumes that in the past the problems were ignored. They 
weren't, people were just trying to solve them in another way than by 
publicity.

The reason why I think the problem is unsolvable is that the problems 
and the groups involved are so diverse that what works for one group 
will worsen behaviour in another group. What helps one group to 
assimilate into the society will alienate another.
We have had a couple of centuries of culture clashes now and we are in 
for a few more. You simply have to accept that, while still trying to do 
the best you can to dampen the excesses.

-- 
Apparently you can afford your own dictator for less than 10 cents per 
citizen per day.

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