On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 10:46:04 +0100, Invisible wrote:

> scott wrote:
>>> For some reason, we live in a culture where it is seen as "desirable"
>>> to not be cleaver.
>> 
>> Interestingly enough, I was talking to some of my colleagues about this
>> exact subject and how it is different in Japan compared to the UK.  In
>> Japan, it is usual for pupils to compare how much work they'd done the
>> night before for school, more definitely being seen as "cooler" and
>> "better".  I said that if you boasted about how much work you'd done at
>> a school in the UK you'd likely get beaten up by a group of bullies at
>> lunchtime!
> 
> Exactly.
> 
> Although Japan does strike me as a very... serious sociaty. They take
> business extremely seriously, even obsessing over tiny details that
> realistically have no significant impact.
> 
> Not that I've met too many Japanise people personally - it might just be
> stereotyped.

To an extent, it is.  My brother lives in Osaka and is married to a 
Japanese womanm, and in talking with her family at the wedding (mostly 
through translators as very few of them speak any English at all).  There 
seem to be two major groups of people in Japanese society from what I've 
seen - there's the traditionalists, like Yoshimi's parents, where the 
gender roles are very rigidly defined; attitudes are very stoic in 
general and things seem to usually be very formal.  The younger 
generation is less formal (if they can get away with it), but some things 
(like management of household money) is in the hands of the wife to the 
point that the husband doesn't have any idea where the family stands 
financially.  Steve explained to me that the reason for this is because 
that way, the husband is incented to continue to work hard; it drives the 
work ethic.

After spending a week with her family here in the US, I found myself 
bowing to people as I talked to them - my wife had to point out to me 
that I was doing this little Japanese-style bow to some people who were 
helping us out with directions at the hotel as I was thanking them.

Steve's brother-in-law is a truck driver.  He knows a bit of English 
(spent some time in the UK several years ago, which is where he 
learned).  I found him to be much less formal than his parents, and very 
personable.  I've only had a couple of interactions with people in Japan 
on a business level, but my brother has had more since he works over 
there.  In fact, he commented to me that the teacher evaluations he 
receives from his students and their parents (he teaches ESL over there), 
some of the details he's evaluated are are really quite asinine - like 
whether or not he wore a tie while teaching - just little stuff like that.

He also had to deal with the legal system over there - former employer 
didn't want to pay him, so accused him of being a drug user.  Nasty 
business; got it resolved fairly well, though I don't think he ever got 
paid.

>> I blame the parents!
> 
> Everyone always blames the parents.
> 
> As I said, I blame the endless cartoons where the cleaver people are
> always the evil villans or the hopeless geeks who get beat up all day...

It's not just the cartoons.

Jim

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