for the record here is a slightly snipped copy of the log file from last
night. all relevant comments by both parties are left in only before and
after were snipped. anyone who wants the unsnipped .log e-mail me at
mar### [at] NO_SPAMncxcom and I will gladly send it

Eric wrote in message <01bdde3e$cc68c9c0$24efebd0@debbiemi>...
>Just thought i would drop a little line about a character called Twyst.
>
>I recently in the last few months became a Pov-ray user.  I enjoy the
>program.
>Also, i have been on irc chat networks for the last couple of years so i
>immediately went looking for a chat room for pov on irc.
>I found one.
>
>It is on Dalnet and it is called #povray.
>
>After spending sometime there and seeing the usual one or 2 people stopping
>by in the channel, i innocently made the comment in the channel one day
>that the channel was being lame.
>
>I never knew what a kettle that stirred up.
>
>One of the ops, Twyst, decided that he didn't like that comment and chose
>to ban me from the channel for such a minor infraction.
>In truth, no one ever talked about Pov-ray which was the whole reason i had
>gone there to begin with.  So, the channel WAS being lame for never
>discussing Pov.


Well we don't go in there to just talk about POVRAY. A lot of us go in to
hang out and help anyone who comes in for it. I know if I have any questions
I can get an answer or at least a pointer to find my own. But no we don't
exclusively talk about POVRAY all the time. If we were forced to how many
people would be there to help? No one is going to sit in an IRC room and
wait for hours hoping someone will show up asking for help. Get real.

>I got quite upset over being banned, ill admit.  Even went as far as to
>repeat a certain curse word in private message to Twyst, for I could NOT
>understand what kind of ego would have someone banning one of the FEW
>constant supporters of the channel.
>The next thing i knew, my computer froze up and i had to reboot.  But not
>before a little program called Nuke Nabber told me that Twyst was nuking
>me.  For anyone that doesn't know, Windows 95 has a few small problems with
>it's internet protocols. I can't really explain it but, it's illegal and
>can be very damaging.   You can learn more about it at
>http://www.irchelp.org/irchelp/nuke/ .


And ANYONE who has been on IRC for years would know there are patches
constantly being relapsed to protect yourself form nuking.

>When I tried to reboot my computer, scandisk ran because Windows had not
>been properly shut down. Scandisk found big time problems with my hard
>drive because of the Windows crash.  After Scandisk finished trying to
>repair everything, Windows would no longer run.  I lost everything on my
>hard drive, had to reformat and reinstall everything.
>
>Now, let me explain to you that nuking is illegal and totally uncalled for
>under any circumstances.  I learned this week that Twyst has come on board
>www.povray.org as the "assistant webmaster".
>
>I can't understand why an organization like Pov-ray would want to be linked
>to a criminal like Twyst.   Perhaps they enjoy him trying to take the
>spotlight away from the Pov organization and putting it on himself with
>such antics as releasing the new Pov-ray release on HIS web page before the
>proper release date.  Or turning supposed Pov-ray channels on irc into his
>own PERSONAL playgrounds where he can play God.


POVRAY 3.1 WAS released to the public when twyst and Mclilith (and I had a
mirror site myself) had it up. do you really think the POVRAY team has all
the time in the world to work on not only the app itself, but the web page,
and all the other things they do? come on grow up. Just because you had a
problem with twyst doesn't mean he played god. I read the .log file pal you
were being an ass from the beginning.

>If a person like this is allowed to be part of the Pov-ray organization,
>what does that say about the organization itself?


Well if the IMP has a person like you involved what does that say for that
organization?

>In Twyst's twysted world, free speech does not reign, only his twysted
>sense of himself as God of Pov.  Pov is about all of us that use it, not
>about one individual.


take out the personal attack and I do agree, POVRAY is more than ANY one
person. But I have been going into #POVRAY for months now and I have NEVER
seen twyst act like "god".

>Do you want to use a program that's associated with criminals, yes,
>criminals (once again, nuke attacks are illegal and the incident was quite
>painful for me, because of damage done to my pc), like Twyst?


I have been nuked numerous times and have NEVER had multiple file
corruption's happen. I'm not saying it doesn't happen but I would think that
maybe there was some instability there beforehand.

>As of recently, i have once again been "allowed" back into the #povray
>channels on Dalnet.  After learning of the Internet Movie Project, I began
>working with another #povray channel regular named Restil on trying to
>complete the first "test" run laid out by the scripting team.  That
>animation has been completed and has only to be encoded into a player, now,
>which is a huge step for Pov-ray and for the Internet Movie Project team.
>I am sure that more will be forth coming from Restil about this to the IMP.

I think you are over stating the importance of your short test. Not that IMP
isn't going to be something special (on the contrary it is VERY special) but
you are overestimating the importance of that one little test.

>I am responsible only for the sun texture and the programming of the lens
>flare, using the lens flare include, produced by Chris Colefax.  And in
>some small part for making the topic an active one in the minds of channel
>regulars.


First of all what does the IMP have to do with the #POVRAY channel? IMP has
it's own channel which btw twyst set up.

>Tonight,  while i was trying to help some of the new users to "our"
>channel, Twyst in normal fashion, was interrupting the conversation with
>lines from his Mirc script.  Only a month ago, i had been told not to do
>this and had complied readily.  When i asked Twyst why he could do it and
>no one else, he replied that he was an OP.  He could do what he pleased as
>rank came with priviledge.


Well first off you didn't ask you told twyst to stop it (don't believe me
check out the attached .log file) secondly ops CAN do what they want in ANY
IRC channel.

>I'm sorry, but my temperament won't let me live with such provincial
>attitudes as this, in a forum that should be free speech.  I really had not
>so much problem with Twyst's script "tests" as the fact that 1.  I had been
>scolded for this.  2.  It had nothing to do with Pov-ray, the topic for our
>channel.  There were new people, people that we should cradle in our arms
>and say Welcome to our channel, welcome to the world of Pov-ray, what can
>we do to help get you started.  But, in honesty, this is the constant curse
>we must endure.


Well first of all I have seen twyst and EVERYONE in #POVRAY stop whatever
off topic conversation to help anyone in need.Secondly who exactly are you
to say your way is the right way? Are you God? NO!!!!! you do NOT make the
rules nor the protocols that we all follow. You complain about a provincial
attitude and free speech but yet you want to limit our free speech to your
liking. GROW UP!!!!!! Its attitudes like yours that start conflicts. "I want
free speech but only if it's about what I want it to be" sheesh man.

>I have started a new channel on Dalnet, Undernet, Newnet and Efnet called
>#povray2.  If you would like to REALLY discuss Pov-ray or problems you are
>having with it, or would like to REALLY get an Internet Movie Project
>going, come, you will be welcome.


Well I stopped in tonight and guess what even you weren't there. so much for
your invitation.

>As for me, i will have no more dealings with the #povray channels, or
>twysted.net as long as they are run by criminals like Twyst.


YAAAAAAA HOOOOOOO! after you asked me about where I saw the 3DS max warez
d-load i won't miss you. We all like free progs but you call twyst a
criminal but yet your willing to d-load warez, another childish double
standard my friend.

>Out,
>
>Eric


Good Bye , Maleko

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