On 30 Sep 1998 03:57:17 -0500, Eric <eri### [at] geocitiescom> wrote:
>In truth, no one ever talked about Pov-ray which was the whole reason i had
>gone there to begin with.  So, the channel WAS being lame for never
>discussing Pov.

Um... yeah, the regulars don't discuss POV 24 hours a day, 7 days 
a week.  That has to do with having discussed every part of it we 
care about.  Considering we've been talking about it constantly for
years now, you'd think we'd have no more to say, but we still talk
about POV most of the time.

Even when the current discussion is off-topic, if a new user comes by 
and wants to know what the channel is about, or what POV is about, or 
has a POV question, I've never seen anyone, including Twyst, not jump 
right up to answer the question in a helpful and supportive manner.  
Even when it's always the same question (where can I find some cool 
raytraced pictures) we never get tired of answering it, because we know 
we just got one more person hooked on POV.

>I can't understand why an organization like Pov-ray would want to be linked
>to a criminal like Twyst.   Perhaps they enjoy him trying to take the
>spotlight away from the Pov organization and putting it on himself with
>such antics as releasing the new Pov-ray release on HIS web page before the
>proper release date.

Actually, my understanding is that official build had been released on
Compuserve prior to both Twyst and McLilith (yes, Twyst wasn't the only 
one who prereleased the official build) putting it on their websites.
I also understand that there was no language in the Compuserve release
preventing further distribution.  That being the case, they weren't 
violating any license agreements or doing anything else wrong by 
providing a place for the Internet community to download it.  True,
they obviously have more time for website maintenance than the POV-Team
does, but maybe that's why the POV-Team is looking for help.  Would you
begrudge them the assistance of someone who has both the time and the
motivation to keep povray.org up-to-date, just because you think he
nuked you and may have incidentally caused your obviously already unstable 
windows installation to self-destruct?

>As of recently, i have once again been "allowed" back into the #povray
>channels on Dalnet.  After learning of the Internet Movie Project, I began
>working with another #povray channel regular named Restil on trying to
>complete the first "test" run laid out by the scripting team.  That
>animation has been completed and has only to be encoded into a player, now,
>which is a huge step for Pov-ray and for the Internet Movie Project team. 
>I am sure that more will be forth coming from Restil about this to the IMP.
>I am responsible only for the sun texture and the programming of the lens
>flare, using the lens flare include, produced by Chris Colefax.  And in
>some small part for making the topic an active one in the minds of channel
>regulars.

Might I point out the the IMP has its own channel?  As one of the #povray 
channel regulars, I can tell you that I got tired of people making that 
topic active in my mind long before you showed up. For those who didn't 
hear: #povray is not the IMP channel. IMP is off-topic in #povray.

But you know what?  The ops don't try to stop IMP or any other off-topic 
thing from being discussed in #povray.  We'll let any discussion take
place, because it's a community first and an informative channel second, 
and all work and no play makes #povray a dull place.  And as ops, we know
that the surest way to make people go find another channel is to enforce 
the rules to the point where nobody can breathe without being off-topic.

>I'm sorry, but my temperament won't let me live with such provincial
>attitudes as this, in a forum that should be free speech. 

Oh, come on now.  IRC isn't about free speech.  The only free speech aspect
of IRC is that ANYONE can op their own channel, and can do just about 
whatever they want in it.  But the ops completely rule the channel.  It's
not OUR channel.  It's the ops' channel, and they graciously let us use
it.  That's true of any channel, and if you've really been on IRC as long
as you claim you have, you surely know that #povray is one of the 
best-behaved channels on IRC in that respect.

>I have started a new channel on Dalnet, Undernet, Newnet and Efnet called
>#povray2.  If you would like to REALLY discuss Pov-ray or problems you are
>having with it, or would like to REALLY get an Internet Movie Project
>going, come, you will be welcome.

Good luck.  As for me, I think I'll stay on #povray.  I like the people 
there and I know that we discuss POV all the time.  I also know that no
channel on IRC stays on topic all the time, unless the ops crack the 
whip.  Maybe I'll stop by in a couple of months and see just how on-topic
your channel is, if it still exists.

There is another channel on IRC where you can talk to your heart's
content about POV, the IMP, BMRT, Radiance, or any other rendering 
stuff. It's #render, and Twyst isn't an op there.  I own the Newnet 
channel, Nite_Hawk owns the EFNet channel, and IR owns the DALnet 
channel. They're not currently linked by bots, as the bots that were 
linking them are now the backups for #povray, but they could be 
linked again if there was any interest.  But despite lots of shameless 
publicity, there's never been anyone in any of those channels except 
the ops. I think that says something for how much people like #povray.

Why was #render founded?  Because Nite_Hawk and I thought the things
we were discussing (Panorama, Radiance, BMRT) were off-topic for 
#povray, so we decided to get some of that traffic off the POV channel.
Guess what - it didn't work.  People wanted to discuss it in the POV
channel.  Let me say that again, because it's important: the ops in
#povray tried to move some of the off-topic conversation out of the
channel by providing a productive alternative, and IT DIDN'T WORK
because the channel regulars didn't go along with it.  Sounds like 
a real monarchy to me.  Those ops must be gods.

>As for me, i will have no more dealings with the #povray channels, or
>twysted.net as long as they are run by criminals like Twyst.

Restil owns the machine twysted.net resides on.  He's also an op on 
#povray.  Does that make him a criminal?  Seems to me you just said 
it does.  Will you have no more dealings with him?

I'm an op on Newnet #povray, and the administrator of twysted.net's 
PatchStation. I'm not a criminal. Looks like you just said I am.  I 
should bring suit against you for either slander or libel, whichever 
is appropriate for this forum.  But then, I can get over it without 
making a big production, so I probably won't be calling my lawyer
today.

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