Hi Tom,

I like the IMP-Project. I've just taken a look on your WEB-Site which is
very well made and
it explains, that from all rendered frames,

~934 were rendered on Windows while
~660 were rendered on all other OS (Unix, Linux, Mac etc.)

If we compare that to the fact that Windows is a lot more widespread,
then this shows in this numbers,  the mathematical  relation of what
Christoph
said about Unix before.

--Theo
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Distributed Network-Rendering or Local SMP-Rendering. With SMPOV and
POV-Ray 3.5. * Download free at: http://www.it-berater.org/smpov.htm



"Tom Galvin" <tom### [at] imporg> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:Xns### [at] 204213191226...
> Christoph Hormann <chr### [at] gmxde> wrote in
> news:c8k### [at] tritonimagicode:
>
> >> So far noone asked for that :-). Myself I don't plan to code in other
> >> environment then windows,
> >> [...]
> >
> > You should notice that you deny yourself the possibility to reach a
> > lot of users, especially for render farms and distributed rendering in
> > general unix systems are extremely widely used.
> >
>
>
> IMPFarm routinely has Windows, Linux, and MacOSX clients.
> http://www.imp.org/impfarm/status-show.asp
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Tom
> _________________________________
> The Internet Movie Project
> http://www.imp.org/

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Please do not post binary attachments to non-binary groups.  Please read the
messages in the povray.announce.frequently-asked-questions group for
details.

    Thorsten

____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich
e-mail: mac### [at] povrayorg

I am a member of the POV-Ray Team.
Visit POV-Ray on the web: http://mac.povray.org

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> Releasing some API for comunicating between independant
> instances on different platform over some protocol would be suffiecent as
> well.
>
> ABX

I have just made a post on that in pov-general about a new WEB-Site:
http://www.it-berater.org/shtmls/smpov_intern.shtml
that should show how anyone can easily make his own RenderAgent for any
other OS.

Taking note of the remarkable programming and math skills of the people
herearound,
I guess it will be a one days Job for them (you?).

--Theo
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Distributed Network-Rendering or Local SMP-Rendering. With SMPOV and
POV-Ray 3.5. * Download free at: http://www.it-berater.org/smpov.htm>

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I suppose I'm overdue for a bit of elaboration on my project.  So, without
further adu...

> I would suggest to start from reading http://www.it-berater.org/smpov.htm
> My question is: how your application will differ to SMPOV?

SMPOV does look like a very interesting program, somewhat more ambitious,
possibly simply better than my own.  My motive is two fold: first, I'm
fairly new at networking, so I wanted to take on my own project, outside of
school work.  So, there is one very important difference (in my mind).
Second, now I didn't play with SMPOV very much, and that was an older
version, but I didn't see much in the way of support for animations, which
is the entire purpose of my program.  My program does not currently support
dividing a frame up into separate tiles to be rendered separately, and I
don't currently have any plans to add that functionality.  It is designed to
handle animations, and transfer any #include the animation may need to
modify.  It also keeps separate copies of the include files for each frame,
so that if one render client fails to deliver the frame can be sent to
another.  So it boils down to SMPOV seems to be designed for stills, mine
for animations.  As for multiprocessor support: I do not have access to any
multiprocessor machines, so that is not a major priority, though it
certainly seems doable.  Remember that this is being developed first for my
own use, to be distributed second.  The feature set will reflect that, more
than anything else.  (But I am always open to outside input).  If I were to
liken it to anything, it would be to the IMPFarm client, expect that I can
use it to render my own stuff.
Some have brought up portability.  SMPOV (correct me if I'm wrong) seems to
rely on windows specific networking protocols, probably easy to use, but not
so portable, and it won't work over the internet.  I am using standard
TCP/IP, so it can communicate with other computers across the internet.
Will this functionality be useful?  That remains to be seen.  As for the
code itself, I am coding in C# (my first C# project, it is a dream to use)
with VS.NET 2003, so I don't expect this code to be very portable at all,
nto without some fairly major revisions.  That, then, is a sumary of my
work.  I'll release more (executables, API) when it is completed.  With
break ending, don't look for them too soon, though
Ah, in answer to ABX, thankyou for your input, but no, I looked at the help
file and still can't find a parameter that lets me hide the interface
entirely.  There are other options that have proven quite useful, but not
that one.

Barron Gillon

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"Barron Gillon" <gil### [at] purdueedu> wrote in
news:3ffe28f4@news.povray.org: 

>  If I were to liken it to anything, it
> would be to the IMPFarm client, expect that I can use it to render my
> own stuff. 
> 

Why not just setup your own IMPFarm?  The development server code is 
available in the sourceforge CVS.  We would welcome any feedback.

http://sourceforge.net/cvs/?group_id=54919


-- 
Tom
_________________________________
The Internet Movie Project
http://www.imp.org/

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"Theo Gottwald * * *" <yne### [at] it-beraterorg> wrote in news:3ffd16c0
@news.povray.org:

> 
> I like the IMP-Project. 

:D 

> I've just taken a look on your WEB-Site which is very well made 

Thanks.  I had a lot of help, and there is still has a long way to go.

> 
> If we compare that to the fact that Windows is a lot more widespread,
> then this shows in this numbers,  the mathematical  relation of what
> Christoph said about Unix before.
> 

And we are just hobbiests.  Professionals would have even less use for 
Windows.  Mac OSX on the desktop and *nix on the farm is the norm for 
professional media creators.  

I think your publishing the protocol spec is a good move ;)  It looks like 
a simple script(bash/perl/python) is all that a *nix client would need to 
hook in, as long as the underlying network transport is in place(SAMBA?).

-- 
Tom
_________________________________
The Internet Movie Project
http://www.imp.org/

Post a reply to this message

On Thu, 8 Jan 2004 23:07:24 -0500, "Barron Gillon" <gil### [at] purdueedu> wrote:
> Ah, in answer to ABX, thankyou for your input, but no, I looked at the help
> file and still can't find a parameter that lets me hide the interface
> entirely.  There are other options that have proven quite useful, but not
> that one.

Do not worry, we have diversity of solutions :-)

Look at "start /min pvengine.exe ....".
Does this shell command work for you?
If not, google for "QuietPOV".
Does QuietPOV work for you?
If not, google for "PovCyg".

ABX

Post a reply to this message

Hallo Tom,

> I think your publishing the protocol spec is a good move ;)  It looks like
> a simple script(bash/perl/python) is all that a *nix client would need to
> hook in, as long as the underlying network transport is in place(SAMBA?).

Yes, Its just a few replace and copy operations. The scripting in *nix-OS
is so strong that they can do it just as you said.

As SMPOV is mainly for LAN and SMP usage, while the IMP has its strong
side in -netwide delivery-, we could even think of some step between both so
a LAN with SMPOV and RenderAgents could render Jobs that are delivered
from IMP "in tiles". If you have intrest in something like that or you have
a wish
for a interface, tell me, I'd implement it.

This way, IMP could even be enhanced for easy rendering of single pictures
maybe.

regards
--Theo
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Distributed Network-Rendering or Local SMP-Rendering. With SMPOV and
POV-Ray 3.5. * Download free at: http://www.it-berater.org/smpov.htm

"Tom Galvin" <tom### [at] imporg> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:Xns### [at] 204213191226...
> "Theo Gottwald * * *" <yne### [at] it-beraterorg> wrote in news:3ffd16c0
> @news.povray.org:
>
> >
> > I like the IMP-Project.
>
> :D
>
> > I've just taken a look on your WEB-Site which is very well made
>
> Thanks.  I had a lot of help, and there is still has a long way to go.
>
> >
> > If we compare that to the fact that Windows is a lot more widespread,
> > then this shows in this numbers,  the mathematical  relation of what
> > Christoph said about Unix before.
> >
>
> And we are just hobbiests.  Professionals would have even less use for
> Windows.  Mac OSX on the desktop and *nix on the farm is the norm for
> professional media creators.
>
> I think your publishing the protocol spec is a good move ;)  It looks like
> a simple script(bash/perl/python) is all that a *nix client would need to
> hook in, as long as the underlying network transport is in place(SAMBA?).
>
> -- 
> Tom
> _________________________________
> The Internet Movie Project
> http://www.imp.org/

Post a reply to this message

Hallo Barron,

> So, there is one very important difference (in my mind).
I have thought about that, too. However as there are script files beeing
transfered, I was afraid
of opening security-holes to the Internet. I would like such a concept, too.
However I
am not good enough about the POV-Ray SDL to be shure that noone could
distribute
virus-scripts or use open port taking files and scripts for attacking
purpose.

> Second, now I didn't play with SMPOV very much, and that was an older
> version, but I didn't see much in the way of support for animations, which
> is the entire purpose of my program.

This is not clear to me. As far as I know, SMPOV has 100% support for any
anmiation you may want to render. Even the Mega-POV Framestep-feature is
supported. IF you decide to use radiosity etc. you can still use SMPOV and
distribute FULL pictures (e.g. set Tiling to 1).

> don't currently have any plans to add that functionality.  It is designed
to
> handle animations, and transfer any #include the animation may need to
> modify.  It also keeps separate copies of the include files for each
frame,
> so that if one render client fails to deliver the frame can be sent to
> another.  So it boils down to SMPOV seems to be designed for stills, mine
> for animations.
Honestly, I did never use this functionality to have separate include files
for each frame, still
you can have that all if they do not have the same name (in case of current
SMPOV you would have to copy them manually into the com-fiolder). If they
have the same name, then it would not work currently thats true.



The disadvantage of SMPOV is that its not multiplatform, from the
functionality, I see currently no
limitations that would need someone to go somewhere else. Besides that
anything you do is welcome,
and if you have new ideas, it can only be good.

> Some have brought up portability.  SMPOV (correct me if I'm wrong) seems
to
> rely on windows specific networking protocols, probably easy to use, but
not
> so portable, and it won't work over the internet.
True,  SMPOV is not portable and it does not access the I-Net (other then
over a VPN).
To be more exact, I believe there are (VPN-like)programms out there which
enable sharing of
folders via TCP/IP-connections. These programms could be used together with
SMPOV
and I planned to take a look at that at a later time.
However, If I would do something else then only if I could be 100% shure not
to open
 security-holes that way, which may be the case if you open TCP/IP ports and
accept script or other files.

> I am using standard
> TCP/IP, so it can communicate with other computers across the internet.
> Will this functionality be useful?
I would really like the idea, and of course it would be safe.
.
I also did not find a switch to start POV-Ray minimized, so I minimize them
using
some API calls somehow like this:

FindWindow(w2$, wt$):ShowWindow wh, %SW_SHOWMINNOACTIVE

regards
--Theo
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Distributed Network-Rendering or Local SMP-Rendering. With SMPOV and
POV-Ray 3.5. * Download free at: http://www.it-berater.org/smpov.htm

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